Hi Lynsay,

Just read you blog. The hint about the Vamp in sunny St. Lucia. Is this going to be book 10 or 11? And who will it involve? Just know it will be great. Can not wait until the end of January for Thomas' story. Have a nice trip. Well I guess I will get back to my books. I am re-reading them all in order. Getting ready to start on Bite me if you can. Just love Lucian.

Number ten is Mortimer's story. It is already written and at the publisher's being toyed with. He is not an Argeneau by the way, but one of the enforcers. You met him in Lucian and Leigh's story. There is an Argeneau present in the story, but he's one you've heard of but not met before and probably didn't realize was an Argeneau at the time (evil grin)

Speaking of which, the publisher wants to put some sort of symbol on this cover and any others that follow that are enforcers and not actual Argeneau men. An insignia or something so readers will know, if you see what I mean. They've asked for ideas. I've been thinking of something like a medallion with a sun and sword on it or Dave suggested two hands holding a sword, kind of like one of those rings (Celtic I think) but holding a sword rather than a heart. If you have any ideas feel free to spill. I'll pass them on to the publisher and if they choose one I'll dedicate Mortimer's story to you and send you an autographed copy.

As for St. Lucia . . . Not telling right now. Sorry. LOL.

Hope you're all great!!
Lynsay

Could have a round disc like the sun. Inside have the tools that are unique to the Enforcers like the Knights Templar/Free Masons have.
Something along the lines of: a sword, flames, and maybe the pole to which they are staked out on.(flames/sword/pyer_pole).
Just an idea. This could be on a ring, pin, or belt buckle.

Hope this helps.

They may not be Argeneau's but they are interesting in their own right. We met them in the series and can not wait to see their story also. Mortimer and Bricker were just too funny in Lucian's & Leigh's story. The grocery store was just hilarious. Mirabeau is also witty and smart. Do not forget those Hot Italians. The Notte's.

Well now you have gone and done it with the evil grin. My imagination is in overdrive now. Thank you very much.
Keep up the good work.

Can not wait until the end of the month.

Hi Lynsay,

Well, my first reaction is that a symbol isn't really needed. Although the main characters may not be actual "Argeneau" family members, they still will be in some way related to the Argeneau family either through friendship or business of some kind. Lots of "family series" have secondary characters whose stories must be told. I would still think of Mortimer's story as "An Argeneau Novel" just as it was printed on the front of Victor's book. Also, Lucien and Victor are Council Enforcers, yet they are both Argeneau men. In their stories, both were on council business before finding their lifemates. Will a Council Enforcer symbol need to be added to those books? Will you have the same symbol for the European council and the American council? And what about the stories of people who aren't Argeneaus but aren't Council Enforcers, either. Mirabeau and Tiny and Teddy are neither, but that doesn't mean they will never have a story.

~~~~~~SPOILER WARNING...Elvi and Mable are happy, and I want to see Teddy happy, too! Don't let him leave his friends behind...he would be an excellent "helper" to Victor in vampire-friendly Port Henry. END OF SPOILER~~~~~~


Those are just examples, as you've never said that they will or won't have a book. C.K. is the only character that I can think of that you have said will not have his own book, since he was based in part on a real person. Just when I thought Avon was getting the hang of the cover art and titles finally, they have to add this tidbit. I had even become happy with the bat tattoos. What is wrong with the simple line "An Argeneau Novel?" It tells me what I want to know! I don't want your "vampire" books to look like all the other "paranormals" out there, kwim? A lot of them have a symbol or the same word in every title, which is okay, but not as original as your books.

Okay, now that I've ranted about it...if they must have a symbol, I suggest some kind of seal, like the seal of a high court or bureau of investigation (thinking FBI.) Since the council and the enforcers are the immortals' law enforcement agency, and the enforcers are trained to capture or take action against rogue immortals or to bring before the council those who have broken the immortals' laws, I think that would be a good "symbol" to go with. It could actually be a gold seal with some phrase in French or Latin or some other language with a design on it that stands for justice and the letters of the agency it represents...AEC=American Enforcement Council or ICE=Immortal Council Enforcement (I like that one because it would work for any continent's council.)Also, CEA=Council Enforcement Agency since they don't really want to bring attention to "immortal." That would work very well. I like a metallic seal, because it would show up nicely on the artwork of the books.

Kind of like ABB is on the Argeneau Blood Bank trucks, etc. You could still have "An Argeneau Novel" across the book, and then have an actual sticker of the Council Seal on the book by it. For the design, a crossed sword and torch if you want to go with methods used for execution, or either something that would go back to the ideals of Atlantis in some way since it was an advanced society.
Hmmm...once I got to thinking about it, I found it kind of fun to try to think of a symbol of some kind that would work. Mine is not exactly a finished idea, but that's my suggestion.

Renee

How about the symbol being a silhouette of a bound man hanging by his wrists and being whipped by a rather stern looking lady...

Oops, sorry... wrong forum. I'm out of here.

Mr. Spice!!!....well, now that we've got your newest suggestion out of the way...I actually like the idea of a silhouette for the symbol on the seal if we can come up with something a little more "appropriate." What ARE we going to do with you??

Now, Dave, get your mind in the right forum, and come up with a good silhouette. What about some kind of law enforcement badge or something? Not that great, though... Then are we going to have a phrase around it...or Council Enforcement Agency...or something else Come on friends, Lynsay can always dedicate the book to her "fab forum" if we come up with something together. Or maybe we need a good name for ourselves as her #1 forum fans! Lynsay, does it have to be a contest, or can we submit our best three ideas for Avon or something like that, hmmm?

Now we have more things to think about...

Wren and I were thinking along the same lines. I started searching for symbols that represented Atlantis, but couldn't find anything that wasn't wrapped up in occult symbolism. I would rather have words, something like "An Argeneau World Novel", than have the front sporting a symbol. Or maybe just use a CE brand, for "Council Enforcer" or something like that.

Denise, I really like the "An Argeneau World Novel" idea. That does go back to my basic premise that the books are all part of the same series, even if the character featured in that particular book is not an actual Argeneau male or female. It covers anywhere the stories take Lynsay in her imagination. It also covers everywhere and everyone, no matter what part of the world or if it's a council enforcer character.
Is Victor's book the first that actually says "An Argeneau Novel" on the front? If so, that would make it easy to put "An Argeneau World Novel" on future books. Especially as the three coming out back-to-back are actual Argeneau family members. Avon could "move out" into the Argeneau World without missing a beat starting with Mortimer's book, no symbol needed! (Or keep their little bat tattoo, which has nothing to do with Argeneaus, but has already been on several books )

I go back and forth. If they really want a symbol, I think it's nice that Lynsay is letting us come up with ideas. But, maybe it could be mentioned to Avon that a few of us just like a simple statement that tells us a book is part of the Argeneau series. It makes more sense to me, and for future printings of already published books, they could just add the catch-phrase "An Argeneau World Novel."

For example, if I pick up a Stephanie Laurens book, and it says "A Cynster Novel" on it or "A Bastien Club Novel" on it (both series are published by Avon) I know what I am getting. The Cynsters started out with six male brothers/cousins, but it has spread out to other characters related in some way to the original group and their happily ever after mates. There are about 14 Cynster Books so far. The Bastien Club Novels are almost finished, and it's a series about a group of former spies for the crown who create their own private club so they can go about finding their wives in their own way. Both of these series are historical regencies, but you get the idea. I happen to like both series, and even treated myself to the last Cynster book in hardcover. (it was my birthday Stephanie is a fave author, published by Avon, and when I pick up a book she has written, it tells me right on the front which "world" I'm entering!

If Lynsay & Dave want a symbol, then I'm all for us trying together to come up with a few good ideas. But a symbol isn't going to sell the books...That happens because of the LYNSAY SANDS name, and if fans are looking for the Argeneaus world, something simple that tells them they have found them! If I were a new reader, and I picked up a book that said An Argeneau World Novel and I thought it looked interesting, I would begin looking for all the books from the start of the series. It is by actually reading a book that you decide if an author writes what you want to read, so you file that author's name away in your brain to look for her other books, kwim?

Also, has our beloved publisher forgotten that Lucern Argeneau writes these paranormal romance books?(via Lynsay of course, but it is part of the storyline!) And I'm not just teasing Avon...I buy more books published by them than anyone else!

I like your idea best of all, Denise!

Renee, who is totally opinionated... but will compromise just so the book gets published!!

WREN
I found something You guys should look at, You mentioned about the bat that is on all the books covers, go to this web site:

http://www.thirdcoastrs.com/celtic_symbol_custom_stamps.htm

And look up the celtic symbol for the "BAT" I think it would work great. Its a round medallion (like they want, and it has a neat celtic design and four bats similar to the ones on the covers already(like we want) I think I ties it all together nicely!

Hey Gina,

I think you may be on to something with the celtic design. It is one that could be adapted easily, or possibly that site would design one to Lynsay's specifications, because we don't want to be accused of theft of their design. I still like Denise's idea of "An Argeneau World Novel" on the books, though, to take care of any "character books" that have nothing to do with the council.

So, should we make the symbol for all of the CE books, keeping our "little bat tattoos" in the circle with the "council enforcer" brand that Denise suggested in the center, or should we go for one symbol that represents the "Argeneau World" to be put on any of the books that have our "bats"?

It's funny, because in the beginning several of us complained about the bat tattoos that Avon was putting on the cover-art, and now we don't want to lose them! But even the Dorchestor covers have a bat theme going on, so I agree...let's stay with it.

Okay, gang, check out Gina's site and tell us what you think. I had to search for it on yahoo, it didn't want to come up on google for me. Everyone, do you think we can find a blend that will please us & Avon?(even if they don't go for it, we will still know what we wanted)

Hey Mr. & Mrs. Spice, do a check-in when you can and tell us what you think so far, please.

Renee

P.S. to Gina...there was a Celtic Wren design...but I don't know how to transfer things. I think it was the last one. That would be good for my whatever space I have that I've never blogged in, or I may order the stamp for my books, scrapbooking, etc. Thanks for the site!

Sorry Gena, I realize I've been spelling your name Gina. I'll know from now on!

Is your name pronounced like Jenna with a short /e/ sound or like Geena with a long /e/ sound? Just curious, because it is an unusual spelling.

I'm actually called by my middle name, but my first name is Alesia, pronounced like Alicia or Alesha. It's seldom that anyone pronounces or spells it right on the first try. It's the greek spelling for the same name. Mom & Dad "just liked it." Got it out of a book...They said it was hard to make Renee flow as a first name!

how about taking the medallian have the four bats at 12,3,6,9,and have the CE (counsil enforcers) in the center in script....or AWC (argenaeu world counsil)
IT SOUNDS A LITTLE LIKE THE WWF( world wrestling federation), huh!

well, I let you guys figure out the rest.

by the way, don't worry about name thing...
everyone gets it wrong! Its just kinda strange...like me!!
You say it like Geeena! I was named after my grandfather eugene.

Bad, bad, Mr. Spice.

How about something along the lines of:
Immortal Enforcement Council or Agency.


Not all Enforcers are our Argeneau's. Also this would take in the European Enforcers.

wren...
I like the idea of something written around it...how about LOVE,LOYALTY,BROTHERHOOD

Gena, I'm not sure.

"Brotherhood" makes me think of another vampire series known as The Black Dagger Brotherhood by J.R.Ward. On the front of each book, it states A NOVEL OF THE BLACK DAGGER BROTHERHOOD and has the symbol of a long silver dagger with a black handle beside it.

The Brotherhood is a small group of vampire warriors that protect and defend their race, mostly in the war against the lessening society, a group of slayers created out of really bad humans by the malevelant being. Only two of the "brothers" are actually twins. Rather, they are an elite group bred for strength to serve their king, who is one of the brothers, and protect the vampire race. There is a lot about love and loyalty in the group, although that is not featured in the symbol on the front. A mystical being created the vampires, and acts as their "goddess."

This series is dark, erotic paranormal, and continues to get more "hardcore" as it has moved along, and from the author's forums, it seems that is the direction they will continue. Although the series started out interesting to me and I still like some of the characters, I have given up the series (no offense to those who like it) because the language and hardcore topics conflict with what I want to read. J.R.Ward is a very talented writer, but I now associate Brotherhood with that series which is very popular at this time.

They are a totally different kind of romance novel than Lynsay's Argeneaus or historicals. Lynsay's writing is light & humorous, filled with "hot romance" but not erotic, lots of laughs while the characters figure out their true love, and no profanity except when a "word" fits the situation, especially not strong offensive words. Like Vicky said on another thread, I enjoy these books as a form of entertainment and escape...which is not to say that Lynsay's books aren't realistic. If I couldn't "suspend my disbelief" then I wouldn't think the books were any good. I get a kick out of Lynsay's scientific way that the immortals came about, as well as the explanation for her shapeshifters in the anthologies.

There are several authors who write "dark paranormals" and over time I have just found most of them to not be to my liking. If I want to fill my head with depressive, oppressive stuff, I'll just turn on the tv news. (oops, sorry, but I've already admitted that I'm not humble and I am outspoken ) That is one reason I'm so opinionated about not making Lynsay's paranormal series look like everyone else's books. There are only a few really talented authors who are able to do the "light paranormals" and make it both fun & realistic. Personally, I think it is a harder challenge. Kind of like some actors say doing comedy is harder than doing drama.

Also, in Lynsay's books, the one "darker" thing is the council, and it's not as much about brotherhood as it is about enforcing the immortal laws. Think about it, Lucian will terminate anyone who threatens his people, but only if there is no other way. The council acts as either the "supreme court" to decide the fate of those brought before them, or as the "executioners" of rogues & criminal immortals. I still see them more as the "law enforcement" agency designed to defend & protect their people. After looking at The Black Dagger Brotherhood books again, it still seems like a good idea to have "An Argeneau World Novel" on the front. Also, I think Avon wants a symbol that tells when a character is not an Argeneau, but a council enforcer. I'm just hoping they will agree to a symbol that stands for all characters that are related to, but not Argeneaus themselves. (such as through business or friendship) Or one symbol for all the books, the way we want. That is why I like your "bat symbol." If we can find just the right adaptation, it would work for all the books.

jmo, Renee

WELL DUH!!
I reading those books while I was waiting for the next Argenaeu to come out, they were great, but your write about one thing.....THEY WERE IN CLASS ALL THEIR OWN!! ( nothing like lynsay's) I bet thats where I got the idea from.
Thanks for keeping on my toes....I swear, I think I am loosing more and more brain cells as I am getting older!!

Just curious. But most of the older Immortals do not like the term Vampire. So I am not to sure about the bat. JMO. The bat is on the Argeneau novels. It might be a little confusing to have it also for the Enforcers.

Cindy,
Yea, I know about it being confusing, but that was the point. We were trying to find something to tie the two together so others wouln't get confused and think that the Enforcers weren't a new series but in fact part of the Argenaeu books.

I just thought the bat was already on the Argenaeu books, so it would make sence to have it on the Enforcers books. (like Lynay said...not all of them have the Argeneau name, so not everyone would know)

WREN...got us all intrested in this, If you think of something please share....we are putting all our ideas together to try to find something we and Avon will like.

G.

Hi Cindy,

Denise's idea for AN ARGENEAU WORLD NOVEL being on each book seems to appeal to all of us. By putting in "world" it groups the series into one, regardless of who in the Argeneaus immortal world is the main character. You can look right on front of the book and know what you are getting. That would be all I would want, but if Avon wants something for just the enforcers, we were trying to come up with something that isn't something that seems to go with another series. So, it's still an Argeneau book, but it has a little something that says "Hey, this guy isn't an Argeneau family member, but is a council enforcer."
(or girl, have they forgotten about Leigh? surely other immortal women might be enforcers.)

Since I had mentioned Avon's "little bat tattoos" that we all thought were an irritating part of the artwork at first, Gena had found the celtic stamp site and discovered the one with the bats on it. (It seems the silly bats have grown on me ) Even though our immortals don't turn into bats, the little winged mammals have been on almost all the books in one way or another...even the little cartoonish covers of the orginal publisher...which I thought were cute. Since Avon has taken the covers in a different direction, and now has asked for a symble to add to the enforcer books...we were just playing around with ideas.

Take a look at the site that Gena found with the celtic bats on it. It is an interesting design. Then maybe we can adapt something so that we like it, and Lynsay and Mr. Spice like it, and then finally, Avon will like it...since they probably have the final say. As long as Lynsay & Dave like it, that's all that matters.

Mostly, we want the words on the front, because that identifies the book as part of the Argeneau series no matter who the featured character. Funny, I'm trying to avoid making the books look like others out there, but that is one thing that I think would be helpful, especially since the series is expanding (hopefully for a long, long time.)

wren

P.S. Great "bat"...I've gotta learn how to do those other smilies!

Cindy,

I like putting a name for the Council on the medallion or seal, like your earlier suggestion. It could go around the edge of the circle. We need something for the middle. Denise had suggested some sort of council brand for the enforcers, so that could be adapted. Gena & I have just been toying with the bats, because they have been on the books and the celtic design is pretty. I debated putting "immortal" in their agency name, but they try to keep that part secret. Sooo....open to ideas

wren

I've made a very basic brand that could be combined with the "Argeneau World Novel" words, or whatever verbiage selected, to indicate an "enforcer" book versus just someone in the Argeneau World, but not an Enforcer. VERY basic but something like this might work. I'd rather stay away from typical Vampire symbols, because they aren't really Vamps.

Hey Denise...I like the medallion. They could use some of the really old script.

I know what you mean about the traditional vamp symbols, but we were trying to find a way to link them with people getting confused. since the Argenaeu novals already had the bats we just kind of stuck with it.

I was thinking, if Avon really wants the bat or evn the name or something, how about we take your symbol, and hide a small silhouette of a bat in the letters somewhere, that way everyone is happy!

tell me what you think!

I was thinking maybe put a shadow of a bat behind the brand. A brand can be embossed over the top of a bat shadow. Or maybe the brand could be the center of the bat shadow. You could do just about anything. I might try to work something up along those lines.

Denise & Gena...Love that last idea! Now it's coming together!! Keep the "AN ARGENEAU WORLD NOVEL" on every book, and add this council enforcer design that you have come up with as needed. The "bat" shadow kind of reminds me of the tattoos, and any pretty lettering...especially an old style, would be great!

What does the Lynsay's fab forum think?

What about you, Mr. & Mrs. Spice? Does it work for you, and if so, do you think Avon will go for it?

wren

Denise.... that is so funny, having the emblem over the bat was exactly what I was thinking. Since a few mentioned they didn't care much for the bat, I thought I would speak politically correct and find some common ground for everyone.

I don't like the steriotipical "bat = vampire" for these books because they don't change into anything, but I do really like the little bat tattoos, especially on the Accidental Vampire, its kinda hot! )

HEY EVERYONE.....
If the enforcers are mostly men, thre are some woman too, (we know of one already)what do you think about giving the woman a charm lit on A BITE TO RMEMBER?


what does everyone think????

Okay I've been playing instead of doing housework.

Denise...

I love the first one, the bat is there but its not the focus, and they could have it on a badge, or a shirt ,or where!!!

What does everyone else think???

How about a large V and an E inside the V Placed in a circle.
G W Pickle

I love the first and second one. Can't decide which one i like better! Great job, you ladies have done real well!

Great job, Denise!

The first one is my favorite! I agree with Gena that the focus is not on the bat so it's subtle like the tattoos, and it makes it more obvious that it's the enforcer design. And if Avon puts it with "AN ARGENEAU WORLD NOVEL" on each book, we have perfection!

Thanks for taking the time to work up a visual design for us.

Lynsay & Dave, we hope you like these ideas.

wren

Hey G W,

Why the V? For vampire enforcer? I'm trying to see where you are going with your idea.

wren

Yes the V is for vampire. Actually,after I thought about it, you could just use the letter E in a hollow circle. The E could be attached to the inner circle at 4 points. That way it wouldn't be obvious to non vampires as to what the medallian means. The bat looks great but i'm sure other people would catch glimpses of the emblem and think they had a nut case on there hands. The single letter E would'nt raise any alarmsept to those who knows what it means.
G W Pickle

Playing a bit more, but if you shrink down those emblems to what might conceivably fit on a cover you get


I like the first and fifth one. On the fourth, you almost lose your bat recognition because of it's size, and the last one loses the brand for the same reason. The first on is a tweak of the fifth, taking the bat a little larger and scaling down the brand somewhat.

Okay, I'm finished. I've got to get working.

I think I like the bat inside the circle, ( i think it was the 4th) the bat is hidden, so emphasis isn't on the bat so much as the leters.

But I kind of like the last one....I could definately work as a little tattoo hidden on the body.

Very cool Denise.

I like #4 best. I like the circle because it makes me think of a full moon, the enclosed bat is very subtle like the tattoos, and the CE denotes Council Enforcer which is the main point of having a symbol. My second choice is #5. Both are very good at portraying what we would like them to say.

The symbol is something Avon wants to differeniate between Argeneaus and Enforcers, right on the front of the books so when readers get into this series, they know when they pick it up who the central character will be.

None of the Argeneau men have bat tattoos to my knowledge, but they have them on the covers of the books. The one on Thomas looks a lot like #5, except no CE letters. Look on the cover of the upcoming book, and you see it on his arm.

The reason for keeping the bat is having the continuety on the front of the books between the Argeneau men & women and the Enforcers, and because it may attract the attention of new readers of the series in a bookstore. People who read paranormals will notice a vamp bat and look over a new book when they're browsing. To me, this part is "all about marketing, baby!" LOL

I don't know that Lynsay plans to incorporate it as a badge or anything for the actual enforcer in the books, just like the tattoos are not on the Argeneaus in their stories. I think we would have noticed a tattoo if it was a plot point. I'm not sure the "nanos" wouldn't work to repair a tattoo being on the skin anyway, as it's not genetic, and although cosmetic instead of a natural part of the body, it is a procedure that pierces the skin when it is put there.

So those are my votes! I'm trying to think of it from Avon's viewpoint, and I'm thinking readers & cover art & marketing...not the actual stories themselves. Paranormal it hot right now, and one gimmick on a lot of other series is having a symbol of some sort.(You get the same type gimmicks on Mystery series books.) I think that's how we got the bats in the first place. It's about creating that market, and getting Lynsay's books noticed...keeping current readers and bringing in new, who BUY the books.

Humble as always, wren LOL

Any comments from the publisher or artist, Lynsay?

Denise has taken various suggestions & put together what many of us think is a great design

Just curious.

wren on my way to take a nap.

bumping...for more discussion and newbies

Tthanks for bumping this thread up. I'm sorry I'm not very creative although I liked the designs that Denise came up with.

I was thinking along the lines of Atlantis as well. Something like: 2 triangles one within the other. (Brings to mind a capital "A") Maybe a circle in the 2 triangles then with the letters "CE".

Sorry all I can think of right now.