>>>>Saying that Mitch Hall is a nutjob and Riane Eisler is a slimebag is verbally abusive. Saying my ideas are "crap, crap, crap, commie crap" is verbally abusive. You may say that my objections to such "criticism" is an attempt to stifle criticism, but it is not.<<<<<

Just go back and read any number of repliues to me you have made and made extremely judgmental and inflammatory comments about my postings, even complaining about my opinions being "re-thought thoughts and claiming yours are original with you, although neglecting to show us any.

>>>> All I have asked is that you state your criticism in language that is NOT VERBALLY ABUSIVE, but instead, you repeatedly rely on name calling and ad hominem attacks, claiming your name calling is an accurate description, even claiming that anyone who believes taxation is legitimate has to be a "commie."<<<

It is not ad hominem if I explain WHY I calll you those things. You promote collectivism, the communist planks, it makes you a commie. Sorry you don't like the name. I should think YOU would rethink your positions. Social planners who claim that traditional parenting is the cause of all the wars and violence in the world ARE nutjobs and slimebags and scapegoating a religious demographic just as Hitler did to the Jews.

>>>>The difference between us is that you believe any government - except governance of covenant communities - is illegitimate. I do not.<<<<

Then YOU are welcome to be ruled. But you have NO legitimate right to force it on those who do not consent to your "governance".

>>>>You make laundry lists of offenses of government and accuse me of being in favor of those things when I have repeatedly stated that the government as it exists now is not the government that I believe is legitimate.<<<<

Well, bully for you. You like some goivernments but not this one, presumably because it allows traditional parenting to go unpunished and carries on foreign wars of which you disapprove while having no issue with the war it is waging on the people. I don't care WHAT kind of "governance" you think is dandy, you still have no right to force it on people who do not consent to it. That is tyranny.

>>>>> Your answer to government violation of rights is one of complaint, not protest, not even attempts to create the covenant communities you say you want.<<<<

No. I never POSTED that I wanted them. I posted that they are an option some might consider, among MANY options.

>>>> No, it is bitter and hateful complaint and attempts to identify me with robbery and murder - in other words, ad hominem attacks.<<<

That is what the state DOES. You think that tehese things are fine, done for the "right" reasons" or for "the poor" or "the children". Your contention that my only option is to PARTICIPATE with the evil (anything else is simply complaining and not DOOOIIINNNNGGGG!!! anything....and that is the point) nd hopefully my participation will make it a little less evil is unacceptable. You are welcome to DO and PROTEST and Dialogue, blah, blah in your state but have no right to demand others have it forced on them.

You make no sense. What does seem to make sense, to you, is justification of your own hateful remarks, claiming that ad hominem is not ad hominem if you explain why you believe it is an accurate description, etc., etc., etc.

You also take offense because I posted topics for discussion - on what you call "traditional families" - and those topics displease you. So you try continuously to demonize and discredit me. It seems nothing will stop this mission of yours, since you've found a target who represents all the things you say you hate about the state.

What's peculiar about it, as you seem to bask in what you believe is "Christian righteousness," is your nonstop expressions of derision and hatred toward me, as if that is what proves you are a worthy Christian. These expressions of venom affect me not at all. But they do affect the level of discourse on this forum, which you drag down to your own level of sheer venom.

Try sending a letter to the editor calling people slimebags or nutjobs. lewrockwell.com might publish it, but I doubt any newspaper or magazine would. You simply use this forum as your own soapbox to try to convince anyone who will listen that government is evil. It doesn't make you look good, despite your voluminous protestations.

Just think. When the empire breaks up you can have your commie utopia and eradicate traditional parenting and I can live free of your "COMMUNITY".

>>>>>The "traditional" families that Lloyd deMause talks about are not specifically traditional religious families, yet you pretend they are when claiming my ideas are "evil," taking umbrage because you think that you are in a traditional religious family. They are families that believe raising children and teaching them through violence and coercion is a legitimate method of child rearing.<<<<<

And we know EXACTLY who you are targeting: those evil Dobson followers, spankers who you call child beaters.

>>>>These are the very things you protest when government commits such offenses against adult citizens or foreign citizens, failing to even be willing to examine how or why adults might believe that force and coercion are a legitimate means of enforcing their will upon others. If children have been raised through such means, what are the ways of cooperation that they would learn?<<<<<

Your contention that state force and violence are excusable but parental spanking is “beating” and inexcusable. The most violent and brutal person I have ever known was NOT spanked or physically punished as a child at all, yet he grew up into an abusive bully. What’s your theory on that?

>>>>>You believe that citizenship is for the "dumbed down," yet active citizenship is the only means of ensuring fair or honest government, or that everyone's interests are given a fair hearing.<<<<

There is no such thing as coerced “honest” government! Are you mad? What do I care if the goon holding a gun on me or threatening me with jail is “honest”? What is “fair” about being enslaved for 9 months of the year so crats can have cushy retirements and pensions? I don’t need to be involved in the “interests” of others! Leave others alone! As long as they are not bothering anyone their “interests” are their own affair.

>>>>>I assume you believe that in your covenant communities you will also just be able to be "left alone," aside from your peaceful cooperation and trading. That is usually not how communities, that rely on MUTUAL agreements related to governance, work.<<<<

Sure it is. The people who want to live according to certain guidelines MUTUALLY agree to certain rules. They then agree to trade with others according to MUTUALLY agreed upon contract. What’s the problem?

>>>> Yet you believe that without government, governance structures will simply disappear.<<<<

Without access to our property via monopoly on aggression the state will shrink/disappear . That does not mean that some folks, like yourself, won’t decide they LIKE being ruled and set up a city state.

>>>>You believe that the so-called free market is a viable stand-in for government,<<<

??? I have posted no such thing.

>>>> where trade and cooperation based on trade determines governance.<<<<

I have never posted this either. You are having a great deal of difficulty conceiving of a stateless society without forced “governance”.

>>>>Apparently it has never occurred to you how easy it would be for those capitalists with the most money to enslave other people, as they have now.<<<<

As they have now?? With the mightiest state in the world, the greatest armies in the world and a Marxist president?? How could the evil capitalists have DONE this with “Our Governance” protecting us?? I know, I know. It is OUR fault for getting ourselves dumbed down and voting for BAD masters. Do you think the evil capitalists would have a fraction of the loot they do without state protectionist regulations? You believe the mythology that the state protects you. That is fine…for YOU. But you have no right to demand others be forced to submit to them.

>>>>You believe that taxation is theft, failing to recognize the mutual ground upon which all income is earned or property acquired. You pretend that humans are isolates, that any income they earn through life IN COMMUNITY is exclusively their own. I disagree with this assessment. <<<

Aaaaahhh. So there is no private property When I get up at 5 AM and run my butt off all day, getting no breaks and tolerating all manner of rudeness and poor working conditions I OWE COMMUNITY a score of my production because they did…what??? Well, I disagree with YOUR “assessment”. And you whine because I call you a commie…because this BS isn’t communism at all, is it?

>>>>>>You support big box stores such as Wal-Mart, king of the big box stores, as if that were something that benefits society, no matter how many local businesses such retail outfits put out of business, no matter how much destruction is visited upon local economies.<<<<<

Walmart is no different than Target, Kmart, etc. For some reason you hate them. So don’t shop there, or at any big box store. I have lost count of the times I have gone to a small local store or business only to have them not be open although their sign indicates they should be, or be ignored while the owner chews the fat with a visitor leaning on the counter. I have never had that happen at Walmart.

>>> At the same time, you champion local "covenant communities," as if such communities could exist in environments dominated by big box stores.<<<<

They wouldn’t have to shop there, no one would be twisting their arms.

>>>>You never fail to try to identify me with everything you hate about corrupt government, and your hatred of government can be clearly discerned in your hateful messages directed to me.<<<<

Gee, I wonder why?

>>>>Quote:
Your worldview is based on theft, lies, dumbing down, forced association, killing, aggression. Mine is not. All I say is you have no right to force your state on others.XXXXX
Once again, you make false claims against me, insisting that that is my worldview when it is not, and I think you KNOW it is not. The fact that you feel you can write such lies with impunity here shows how skewed your own worldview is, pretending that I am in favor of all the corruption and wrongdoing of which the government is guilty.<<<<

I can only refer you back to your many posts promoting things like state monitoring of private families, your scapegoating of traditional parenting, your claim that private property does not exist, that all belongs to the “COMMUNITY”.

>>>>>Why you try to personalize this and claim only good for your own worldview and evil for mine, I don't know. But it is dishonest in the extreme to make such charges against me when I have repeatedly stated that government as now exists is not what I think government should be.<<<<<

LOL! I know what you think governance SHOULD be, and that is worse yet. I don’t care WHAT kind of “governance” you want, the state itself is rotten to the core, based on aggression, lies, theft, and killing. YOU are welcome to it.

?????You also claim that I have no right to force "YOUR STATE" on others. But you have never explained why you believe that you have the right to break up countries into "covenant communities" smaller than Liechtenstein, some perhaps governed via theocracy, some by racist exclusionary principles, some by homophobia or who knows what.<<<<

Demanding the state leave us alone, denying their legitimacy to rule is not the same thing as “breaking up countries”. I believe the country WILL break up as the gulag becomes seen for what it is but I have no ambition to “break it up”. I will applaud when it does, unless another state moves in and sets up their racket. Some people WANT theocracy, some want white only or black only communities, some want homosexuality mainstreamed and some want to be spared from witnessing overt homosexual displays. What is so awful about folks just living as THEY want? Why do they have to live the way YOU want?

>>>>>Yet you presume this right, no matter what anyone else may want,<<<<

BULL! I have repeatedly posted that you should live in the type of state you want. The fact that what you want is FORCING others to live as YOU say they should is not a persuasive argument. YOUR wants are no more important than mine or anyone elses.

>>>> based on the dubious "teachings" of your heroes such as Rothbard or Hoppe or other separatists who claim your devotion<<<<

Devotion? They make a lot more sense than you do.

And making no more sense than you did the first, second, tenth or twentieth times you've run through your lewrockwell.com vision of a better world.

How blind and without insight into your own thought process ARE you?

Your contention that it is tyranny to deny the right of others to tyrannize us illogical. And that has NOTHING to do with LRC or my style of speech that so offends your delicate sensibilities.