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>>>>>>And vote for the constitutionalist, the OB/GYN candidate who hasn't managed to keep his theocratic views out of congressional politics with his repeatedly introduced Sanctity of Life Act. <<<<<
Hey, YOU are the one blathering about your supposed devotion to the Constitution, which we both know was total hogwash. You prefer the Obammunists Corporatist Marxist State Theocracy and that is fine with me…..for YOU.
>>>>>>You're kind of cute when you make Nazi eeeeekkkkkk noises and let that stand in for intelligible English. It doesn't change that fact that your vision is bereft of vision. <<<<<
LOL! And you are bereft of logic.
>>>>>As far as governance, I thought you just said you liked the governance of covenant communities, their capacity to exclude anyone they didn't like from their communities. That's not governance?<<<<
It is agreeing to cooperate and abide by previously agreed upon rules.
>>>>What is it? Drafting and implementation of, er, rules?<<<<
Look at the big brain on Babu!
>>>>Your depiction of anarcho-capitalist society is about the worst I can imagine.<<<<
And that is why YOU should live in a Total State that the Obammunist will create for you and I will live in a free market.
>>>>>Now, isn't it time for you to call me a "commie creep"? Surely it is only commies who believe that taxation isn't theft, who believe that society can be taken back from the corporate stakeholders who rule the world, who recognize that a democratic republic only functions with full civic participation of its members.<<<<<
LOL! Democratic republic???!! How’s that been working out for you? You harbor a slave mentality, for everyone else. You never shrink from attempting to shove your morality and worldview (but THAT’S not “THEOCRACY”, no matter how loaded with moral judgments and values) on other people via the state and sniff how righteous you are because you are “doing something” (to OTHERS!). Yes, people who think that theft becomes magically moral when done by the STATE class are commies. Somehow, your mind believes that people become elevated creatures when employed as state parasites and THEIR theft is Noble and Good. And of course anyone who objects to being looted is selfish, “has theirs” (an obvious illogic, if I “had mine” the state wouldn’t have it and I would have nothing to complain about!). Democracy is majority rule, MOB RULE and flourishes when the masses have been dumbed down and consensuses engineered. Full civic participation is factored into the process, those who oppose the “work” of change agents are identified, marginalized and demonized by their “activism”. The Delphi process works beautifully to effect change of the type you advance which is why you constantly yammer about “doing something” and demonize those who want no part of the violence of the state. Of COURSE you want “full participation” in your religion! I want “full participation” in mine. I just do not believe I have the right to force people into mine. You do!
>>>>That "being left alone" is not the way anything happens.<<<<
It sure doesn't!! There are no end of change agents and "activists" "doing something" to force their ideas of the "way things SHOULD be" on others using the violence of the state.
>>>>> Even the cooperation, trading and "live and let live" anarcho-capitalist nostrum meant to fix all societal ills<<<<
A lie. I have repeatedly, REPEATEDLY....REPEATEDLY...Are you READING this??...REPEATEDLY posted that I promise NO "nostrum", no guarantee, no panacea, no utopia. Only liberty, freedom from state violence to be your own person, live your own life as YOU see fit, not as some "activist" or change agent or "democratic opinion maker" thinks you should.
>>>>> that occur wherever more than a single person is engaged in activity.<<<<
You see no difference between VOLUNTARY cooperation and association between willing and eager participants and FORCED "participation" and servitude to the state and their decrees? I suupose you wouldn't.
Sigh.
>>>>>No, wherever it is that more than one person is engaged in activity is a BORG.<<<<<
Nonsense. The BORG FORCIBLY ASSIMILATES. A community who vaolunatrily trades and cooperates is not forced, not conforming, not collectivized. They are fully human.
>>>>> If you were not BORG-minded, you might see a broader picture than the warlike<<<
Warlike??? What are you talking about? It is your state that makes war.
>>> one you are dedicated to upholding. Otherwise, your dedication to cooperation is impressive.<<<<
I'm so flattered. Your attempt to portray ME as "warlike" for simply wanting rid of the state army of parasites "eating out our substance" is about your speed, a predictable smear.
Your truculent speech is warlike.
Your refusal to even consider that criticism might be valid is warlike. You, the hater of government who wants government to disappear except for people who want it, seem to believe that any criticism of your remarks is a smear. Criticism is not synonymous with smear.
>>>>Your truculent speech is warlike.<<<<
What nonsense! I simply disagree with you. I have NOWHERE advocated war.
>>>>>Your refusal to even consider that criticism might be valid is warlike.<<<<
On what planet? There is nothing "warlike" about criticizing your ideas.
>>>> You, the hater of government who wants government to disappear except for people who want it,<<<<<
Yes!!
>>>> seem to believe that any criticism of your remarks is a smear. Criticism is not synonymous with smear.<<<<
I see. I "insult", you "criticize". More hogwash.
>>>>>Quote:
Only liberty, freedom from state violence to be your own person, live your own life as YOU see fit, not as some "activist" or change agent or "democratic opinion maker" thinks you should.XXXXXX
And of course this would include freedom to have an abortion,<<<<<
Of course...unless one lived among those who did not tolerate infanticide in their community.
>>>> not to be called a murderer if one did, not to be harassed and harangued or shot in an abortion clinic.<<<<
Abortion clinics would exist only where infanticide is promoted as a good. There would be those places, just as there would be red light districts, etc. People don't change.
>>>>>> Or would this freedom demand obedience to theocratic notions of when life begins? It certainly would if Ron Paul's Sanctity of Life Act ever gained any traction.<<<<<
It would be so much better if he simply became president and went about starting illegal wars and ordering "hits". But RP does things the old fashioned way. AS previously posted, those who WANT baby killing mills in their towns can contract for them.
>>>>>>Quote:
Nonsense. The BORG FORCIBLY ASSIMILATES. A community who vaolunatrily trades and cooperates is not forced, not conforming, not collectivized. They are fully human.XXXXXXX
So, everyone is BORG assimilated?<<<<
Only those FORCED to live according to the edicts and values of those who think they know best how all should live. You like being Borg so that is tricky, no force needed with you...but that is because you see yourself as molding and improving the borg.
>>>>>I don't think so, although your protestations make it sound as if that is the case.<<<<
You are welcome to your opinion.
>>>>>As long as you are living in this country as an American citizen, it is no more MY state than it is yours that makes war.<<<<
I'm not the one excusing it, supporting it, claiming it is necessary and good. That would be you, and Ron, Amy, Odin, etc.
>>>>>Yet you try to distance yourself from your own citizenship and the taxes you pay to support war, claiming it is someone else's government, someone else's war, that you had nothing to do with. A cowardly cop out.<<<<
You sound like Ron!!You blame me because I was born in the US, indoctrinated and lied to in their schools, wasted YEARS "voting" and "making my voice heard" and getting looted under threat of jail or death? I want no part of it, any way I can I opt out if I have other options. While I realize you think I should kill myself so as to not be a part of the borg I am not going to do that. I ama slave, I have very little control over most what the state you find so great does to me. YOU voted for this LIAR who pretended he was going to end the war in Iraq and he has gotten us into more war. I told you he was CFR and would do this before the election but, nooooo, the Obammunist was the New Messiah! Well, sorry you don't like what your "participation" has gotten you but it's all on YOU.
>>>>>>Your misrepresentation of other people's views is warlike, a style of argumentation you try to pass off as valid.<<<<
Disagreeing with you does not make me "warlike", although I'm sure some day it will come to that. I am so "arrogant" as Ron says and you intimate, to dare to think I should be free to live as I want and not as YOU claim I should. Sorry, I am not interested in your "citizenship" borg and that does not make me "warlike".
>>> If you see views in opposition to your own, you seem to immediately attribute to the person all kinds of concepts and notions they have never articulated.<<<<
You are welcome to refute the points I make. But it is so much easier to keep repeating how "warlike" I am to disagree with you and how you don't like my speech. Too bad.
>>>>>> Whether you grab these notions from Gatto or Blumenfeld or Iserbyt or any number of others, it is dishonest of you and warlike to continuously try to attribute to others positions they do not hold.<<<<
And continually calling me warlike is not attributing to me a position I do not hold. Got it.
>>>>> But because the person disagrees with you in one area of contention, you immediately take a whole range of notions and insist that they must be in agreement with them when they are not.<<<<<
Such as?
>>>>Your belief that only your own points of view have any validity is warlike.<<<
ABSOLUTE state worshipping bilge! I am free to believe in what I want to believe in JUST AS YOU DO! My disagreeing with YOU, OPTING OUT of your state violence and aggression, calling it what it is is not "warlike", unless you intend to declare war against me....and that would mean YOU are the warlike person. There is no valid authority (you have been asked but have refused to provide one) that requires that I have to agree with you and that I cannopt have my own opinions and ideas. You are full of crap. Some ideas are good and some are crap. And I will continue to point out the crappy ideas based on lies, force, aggression. And those are YOUR ideas, ma'am
>>>>>Quote:
You see no difference between VOLUNTARY cooperation and association between willing and eager participants and FORCED "participation" and servitude to the state and their decrees? I suupose you wouldn't.
Sigh.XXXXXX
As society stands now, it is perfectly possible to engage in state-voluntary associations that have positive outcomes.<<<<
State voluntary associations?? Like those helpful parent teacher "partnerships" where they nose around in your private life? No thanks. I want no part of them, "partnering" with those who consider me and my kids their property. But you go ahead.
>>>> Would you reject any cooperation with state entities as compromise? <<<
Example?
>>>>>Yet you feel no compunction in driving on state highways, using the post office or engaging in apologetics for people like Hans-Hermann Hoppe and Murray Rothbard, whose lack of employment choices forced them into state employment at the University of Nevada<<<<
It is called the state driving out free market options, as they did with private schools and libraries. Give us our tax money back and stop making it illegal to have private mail deliveries and we would have more private alternatives to use.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZcmBpzZ1rI
But of course by claiming to renounce participation in a "citizenship borg," you find a convenient excuse for doing nothing, for just "wanting to be left alone" - as if that is the best idea anyone ever had.
Of course, it's not how community works except in your Anarcho-Capitalist Dream Land, where living in a market, exercising market choice, and buying and selling become the sine qua non of passive consumerist existence.
What perversions of Gatto's ideas you preach here.
>>>>Ah, but of course. You are impervious to criticism because you can do or say no wrong. <<<<<
Calling me “warlike”, insinuating I am selfish (“you’ve got yours”) because I dare to object to being looted by other humans who have decreed themselves “leaders” and “experts” is not “criticism”. It is name calling and smearing. You have no basis for calling me those things.
>>>>The problem is always someone else. Someone else is "full of crap," and you believe you are your own "authority" for dismissing people's ideas as crap.<<<<
When I post that I want YOU to live as YOU wish and you respond with calling me “warlike”, selfish, etc. it simply reveals your intolerance for anyone elses POV or way of life. Participation in your statism IS the ONLY option in your view. My refusal to agree with you and your insistance that to believe other than you do and ACTUALLY THINK THAT MY IDEAS ARE RIGHT and yours wrong is intolerable to you. How DARE I believe that my ideas are better than yours! How “warlike” of me! Actually, my moral authority is God and I am not afraid to say so. You HAVE none….other than that crowd of people pushers you promote.
>>>>You can use private mail delivery now via FedEx and UPS.<<<
Yes. I can put a birthday card in a box and ship it or I can get a mailer and go to town to Kinkos and ship Fedex. Actually, I do use UPS and Fedex for appropriate items. So nice of the state to allow this.
>>>>I suppose you would characterize your speech here as cooperative, the same kind of cooperation you expect to have in your Anarcho-Capitalist Dream Land. Guess again.<<<
???!!WTH!? I am not here to COOPERATE with you! We are discussing ideas and you are in a snit because I will not compromise and agree with you that ends justify means, that enslavement of people is OK as long as its not for evil corporations. You mean COMPROMISE, not COOPERATION, and this compromise is participation in the state dialectic. You are welcome to it, of course, because I want YOU to be happy.
>>>>Your speech is hostile, angry, disrespectful and unworthy of response. Example: "You are full of crap. And I will continue to point out the crappy ideas based on lies, force, aggression. And those are YOUR ideas, ma'am"<<<<
LOL! And calling me “warlike” is SO “cooperative“, calling me selfish is the epitome of what you consider civil dialogue. This whole latest attack of yours has NOTHING to do with ideas other than YOUR insistance that to believe other than you do and state so in strong terms is somehow wrong, although by WHAT authority other than your own weird code, I have no idea.
>>>>>>"Absolute state worshiping bilge."
What you do is continually fight against communist phantoms that exist nowhere except in your own mind.<<<<
Yes, That wad of loot removed from my paycheck every two weeks is only in my mind, the ever increasing taxation (I think they are going after private pensions next) a figment of my imagination. I am simply “investing”, it is really all the states money so HOW can I complain, right?
>>>> You define anyone who is in favor of taxes as a commie. <<<
Well, DUH!
>>>>>You want to know what ideas and positions you've attributed to me that I do not hold? The rants you've gone off on on numerous occasions claiming that I am a Fabian or an atheist because I do not share your own fanatical religious beliefs or your nonsensical anarcho-capitalist beliefs.<<<<
When you continually attack and ridicule Christianity (while having an obviously poor grasp of it), when you continually post and promote any number of state intrusions on peoples lives including control over their very offspring you reveal what your political persuasion is. I judge the fruit. You can claim you are libertarian but your posts reveal otherwise. And I point this out and you don’t like it and attack the way I post and call me “warlike” (apparently disagreement is not to be tolerated because it upsets your calm). You very rarely refute what I post, you nearly always begin attacking ME, not the ideas.
Margaret Sanger into the eugenics mix. Margaret Sanger fought for birth control to be legal in the United States when the Comstock laws, passed by an all male Congress in the 1800s, had made them illegal.<<<<
Are yo>>>>>Your criticism of me for criticizing Henry Ford's eugenics without throwing u now seriously defending Margaret Sanger? You are aware of her position on “undesirables” reproducing?
>>>>You claim that any civic participation is membership in a citizenship borg, something you eschew.<<<<
Yes.
>>>> This is untrue, yet you cling to the concept like there's no tomorrow.<<<<
Then you do not understand the Hegelian Dialectic process of thought and behavior control…or you are hoping that others on this forum do not. But I do and you know it, which is why you attack me personally for simply not wanting to live and think as you do.
Your hostile, rude speech is warlike.
crap, crap, crap...commie crap. Most of your opinions are crud and I have explained a zillion times WHY state violence, murder, and theft are just as wrong as when "citizens" commit them....and YOU promote state violence while posturing as so refined and literate....and now not "warlike"(???!!!).
Oh, and your snarky little insults at the end of every post are crap as well.
Yeah, I'M the "warlike" one!
and expects people to believe her. Calls abortion clinics baby killing mills and expects people to believe her.
Uses speech such as hogwash, bilge and crud to "criticize" other people's ideas.
and expects people to believe her.<<<<<
You don't have to believe me at all. No one does. That does not change the truth one bit.
>>>>> Calls abortion clinics baby killing mills and expects people to believe her.<<<<<
Again, DUH.
>>>>>Uses speech such as hogwash, bilge and crud to "criticize" other people's ideas.<<<<
And at the same time I explain WHY they oare hogwash, etc.
>>>>>js absolves herself of any responsibility for anything her country of citizenship does because she didn't vote for Obama. <<<<
I did not participate in the ritual sham of choosing my own ruler. I do not consent to this system/worldview. It is being forced on me. "Citizenship" is a scam, a hoax, a farce for the dumbed down. You really believe that Obama was elected (and is a "citizen")?? You really believe that "The People" wanted these wars, these fat cat bailouts (of EUROPEAN banks, yet!!)??>>
>>>>>I have not excused it or supported it or claimed it was necessary or good.<<<<
Then WHY on earth this insistence that ALL must participate in it??
>>>>> Neither has Amy. More cop outs to try to prove how noble and good you are, when you are but another coward who is too timid to protest taxes, war or anything else.<<<<<
LOL!! Apparently you missed the thread about the actual selecting out of populations troublemakers to the existing order via identifying them and doing away with them in order to create a population of meek "citizens" who fight amongst themselves instead of rebelling against their masters. Yes. I MUST go stand in front of a tank in Tianamen Square or Washington to PROVE to YOU how noble and good I am. No thanks. I have wasted enough time "protesting", "making my voice heard", etc. You will just have to despise my "cowardice". I will continue to expose the legalized mafia for what they are and you will continue to defend them and attack me for NOT loving them as you do.
>>>> You merely know how to chatter on this forum, as if that is accomplishing something.<<<
That tidy little "ending" again. I am aware of you low opinion of me. I will try to bear the pain of the knowledge that the resident commie change agent on this forum disappproves of me.
A zygote, an embryo and a fetus is not a BABY, as you insist.
>>>>>A zygote, an embryo and a fetus is not a BABY, as you insist.<<<<
Oh, really? Butcher as many babies as you can and the ones who escape your scapels you try to steal from their parents. Why do you hate children and babies? Why do you hate the family so? Why do you hate PEOPLE so much?
>>>>>>Quote:
>>>>>I have not excused it or supported it or claimed it was necessary or good.<<<<
???!!!!!!??? LOL!!!!
>>>>>>Then WHY on earth this insistence that ALL must participate in it??
>>>>> Neither has Amy. More cop outs to try to prove how noble and good you are, when you are but another coward who is too timid to protest taxes, war or anything else.<<<<
Taxes are theft under threat of violence. For WHATEVER reason, even reasons you like money stolen for. State humans are no better than other humans.
>>>>>>>>Quote:
I will continue to expose the legalized mafia for what they are and you will continue to defend them and attack me for NOT loving them as you do.
I never said I loved legalized mafia, which is another good example of how you misrepresent what I say here.<<<<<<
Your NONSTOP insistence that I participate in my own enslavement by the state is certainly illogical then.
>>>>>>>>Quote:
resident commie change agent
I am not a resident commie change agent. Repeating it a million times doesn't make it so, except in your own addled mind.,,,,
No, what makes it so is your relentless insistence that ALL participate in your state system, all pay the state whatever they demand or else be condemned as selfish, that parents have no right to rear their own offspring as they see fit, that people who worship other than you do are evil and stupid (Quiverfulls), and that "Climate Change" is justification for the stripping of further property rights...oh and your love of all things tax funded (community centers, kidjails,Canadas educational experiments). That is SOME of what makes you a commie change agent.
>>>>>Neither is Riane Eisler a slimebag, nor Mitch Hall a nutjob.<<<<
Yes, they are and for reasons I have already gone into.
>>>>>>And citizenship, according to Gatto, is not "a scam, a hoax, a farce for the dumbed down." Why don't you write to Gatto and tell him how dumbed down he is?<<<<<<
I think he knows it.
Climate Science Watch
"Referring to Charles and David Koch as "The Tea Partiers," Rolling Stone says:
"The multibillionaire brothers not only run the nation's largest private energy company, they rival Exxon in funding the front groups that spread disinformation about the dangers of climate change... As author Thomas Frank observes in What's the Matter With Kansas?, `Koch money subsidizes the mass production of bad ideas...'"
And how many of those bad ideas end up here, on John Taylor Gatto's education forum. Is this the forum for bad ideas?
I don't promote the Koch Neocons.
No, you just soak up all their PR on how global warming is a hoax.
The hoaxsters ADMITTED it!
You are hilarious! Still insisting that only the NY Slimes and MSM of that lefty ilk Speak Truth! Can't have any NEOCON propaganda getting in the way of your Marxist propaganda.
But they are telling you and you believe them. Where do you think the bulk of "it's a hoax" commentary originated? lewrockwell.com?
The jury is still out on climate warming, but you accept all the biased media conclusions on the topic at the same time that you ridicule others for accepting MSM opinions in the "Sheeple Quiz."
And you apparently cannot distinguish MARKET propaganda from science. After all, your biased views are aligned with those of the Koch brothers.
Responding to this is a waste of time. I have posted on all of this before for those interested in living VOLUNTARILY cooperating rather than being perfected into approved "citizens" at gunpoint.
Those who WANT to live being ruled by other humans should have that option, of course. They simply cannot demand we ALL have to join them.
I guess consistency is one way to describe your pre-thought thoughts that come in cookie-cutter recipes from lewrockwell.com.
Care to list all those original, never been thought before revelations YOU have birthed on this forum from that vast intellect you think you have?
It's OK, attack LRC, the premier anti-state libertarian portal. It exposes you for the hater of liberty and humanity and state lover that you are.
Father Barron
"Now to give Michael Moore his due, there are elements of the Catholic social teaching tradition, which stretches back to Jesus and the Old Testament prophets that support his point of view. In Rerum Novarum, the great text that inaugurated modern Catholic social doctrine, Pope Leo XIII comments that once the demands of necessity and propriety have been met, everything else we own belongs to the poor. I submit to you that if you allow that statement to sink into soul, it will cause a good deal of spiritual and moral discomfort. He furthermore sternly warns the wealthy that their salvation will, to some degree, depend upon their generosity to the poor. Cardinal Francis George of Chicago echoed Pope Leo when he said to a group of wealthy donors some years ago that the poor needed them for their temporal well-being but that they needed the poor in order to avoid going to Hell! More to it, all of the Popes who have written on social matters, from Leo to Benedict XVI, have insisted that the government has a moral obligation to regulate the economy when gross injustices mar the system. In the measure, therefore, that the recent economic collapse was precipitated by an irresponsible deregulation of the financial markets, Michael Moore is right to raise an authentically Catholic voice in protest against it."
Is this the part on Catholic social teaching and justice that you find "non-binding"?
Your silence on the topic does not surprise me.
At least you're reading something besides Riane Eisler.
Nope. Don't agree with Fr. Barron on Marxist Michael Moores "authentic" Catholicism".
There can be voluntary "social justice", like Mother theresa. Note that Fr Barron referred to DONORS, implying VOLUNTARY support to the poor rather than state looting you find so "just".
That is the variety I support. Not Moores (or anyones) "social justice" at gunpoint. Keep looking, there are lots of Marxist priests blathering about "social justice" and promoting wealth redistribution. Bella Dodd wrote about her part in the infiltration.
And no, their ideas are not Church dogma...yet. When they become that I'll part ways with them.
Since you are researching Church teaching read up on the Scholastics at Salamanca, the first economists.
I see. Father Barron is a good film critic, but that's as far as it goes.
I wasn't researching Church teaching. Just thought I'd see what you thought about Father Barron's opinions in this case.
I disagree that one can be a state worshipping Marxist wealth distributor and have an "authentic Catholic" opinion. I doubt Barron would agree. There is nothing wrong with praying for rulers and slavemasters to be just. Or calling on existing governments to be just.
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