Finally! Someone who appreciates my rants! Just hang around, you'll soom be tired of them!

Hi folks,

I am always wary of books. What is written is never what is read. A great book for some, is trash for others. Pirsig (him again!) talks about the Chicago great books program in his Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, and the 'fall out' that he had to deal with in his investigation into Quality. The way I see it, (and I find resonance with what Gatto says in his works) is that one needs to keep focused on the relevancy of what one reads to ones present state of knowledge about the world. For me the ultimate aim of 'self guided learning' (a term I have recently come across with my involvement with an interesting alternative local college) is to develop wisdom. Pure knowledge, which IMHO is the contents of most books is not knowing, which is to me wisdom. How often has one come away from a manual on some thing, and still been none the ‘wiser’ on how to assemble or operate the thing! A ‘Great’ book taken out of context and without relevancy to the need or the interested enthusiasm of the reader becomes in my own experience the most boring drivel imaginable.

But hey, I’ve only ever read a few books myself, and I am a very slow reader, in the respect that I like to savor and digest the material which takes more time than the situation often allows, and that’s when I find something palatable to read in the first place: something that is not just someone else’s propaganda.

So like I said, I am wary. As the Buddhist monks say in the Theravadin tradition ( a tradition with more than its fair share of ‘books’!) “You won’t find truth in a book!”

Love

Sid

PS: Think these posts are great!

I must disagree. There is a great deal of truth in a lot of books. What would be the point in making millions of kids not want to read if there wasn't? As people have posted before, a persons life experience and level of education usually influences what is learned. I agree that there is a lot of garbage out there in the book world. Reading the "best seller" lists is depressing, as is Oprah's "discovering" of various literary classics in her middle age. But, better to have discovered late than not at all, and if her recommendation gets them read by more people, even better. The Great Books list has often been criticized and my "Great Book" may not be yours. But I do admire Adler and Van Doren for emphasizing the Great Conversation, for trying to make a deracinated population understand that where they are is a result of ideas of the past. I'm not a super fast reader, either. I took "Speed Reading" once and dropped out. What is the point of reading if you're skipping words and rushing by sentences the author sweated over?

JS
I was just discussing this point about speedreading with my husband. It seems to me that my having learned to read things very quickly and skim them for important information (test material) has actually made me nearly incapable of retaining what I read. Now, if I *want* to read something slowly and carefully, it takes a great deal of effort *not* to read too quickly. Someone was praising a method which teaches five-year-olds to speedread, but I am weary of such methods. St. Augustine and St. Thomas were not speedreaders, yet they *retained* what they read in wonderful quantity--entire Scripture memorized, etc. I think a lot of speedreading probably detracts from that kind of ability.

Rebecca

Interesting. I find skimming textbooks to be pretty easy. They are boringly written, usually an obvious outline format that the "main idea" can be plucked out quickly. But for real reading, speed reading is the pits. I can't imagine speed reading Dickens or Wendell Berry, for instance. What would be the point? You wouldn't really have read it. I can read much more quickly than I used to be able to, and more difficult material, but that's just from practice. I don't retain much in the way of exact words/phrases, though, and when I do I almost never remember where I read it or who said it. That's what is so great about the Internet.

Hi JS,

I agree with your disagreement. There is indeed a lot of truth in books, but for me in my own experience, Truth is something we create for ourselves. Now that can come out of the reading of a book - following where it leads the person reading it, or it can come from the simplest of experiences or the greatest of traumas.

As I have posted on other threads, in my own opinion the schooling focus on reading is purely utilitarian: reading road signs, instructions and explanations, and the quicker the better!! (Hence perhaps speed reading!) I also think that those who are awake have the best opportunity to 'tweak the controls of the machine'. Being on the outside, they can perhaps best judge which direction the thing is headed. How that is actually done will probably be as varied and interesting as the varied and interesting variety of awakened ones.

I find this guys site quite inspirational sometimes: http://www.cainer.com/. He’s quoted some stuff by Jesus, like 'Judge not, that ye be not judged.' And 'Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.' Very synchronos in my mind.

Thanks again for that post, I found it a good read.

Happy Christ-Buddha-Dao-Mohammad-Solstice-mas…

Love,

Sid

>>>>I agree with your disagreement. There is indeed a lot of truth in books, but for me in my own experience, Truth is something we create for ourselves.<<<<<

I cannot create truth. I can discover it in the sense that I found something that was lost to me, but I cannot create it. It exists independent of me.

>>>>Now that can come out of the reading of a book - following where it leads the person reading it, or it can come from the simplest of experiences or the greatest of traumas.<<<<

I would say that this sounds like you are discovering truths, not creating them.

>>>>>As I have posted on other threads, in my own opinion the schooling focus on reading is purely utilitarian: reading road signs, instructions and explanations, and the quicker the better!! (Hence perhaps speed reading!)<<<<<

I agree. Speedreading discourages the in depth kind of thinking one must do for understanding the reading of ideas. It is best suited for function, for a cog. But perhaps there are those who have photographic memories and the like who can read very quickly and understand what they have read AND enjoy any artistry within it. Most of us are not so blessed.


>>>>I also think that those who are awake have the best opportunity to 'tweak the controls of the machine'. Being on the outside, they can perhaps best judge which direction the thing is headed. How that is actually done will probably be as varied and interesting as the varied and interesting variety of awakened ones. <<<<

I agree. And the more people who abandon the government schools, the more likely this is to happen.

>>>>>I find this guys site quite inspirational sometimes: http://www.cainer.com/. He’s quoted some stuff by Jesus, like 'Judge not, that ye be not judged.' And 'Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.' Very synchronos in my mind.<<<<

The Cainer site appears to be a new agey-pagan type of one. I'm glad if he sees the wisdom of Christ, though. Perhaps it will encourage him to further explore the Christian theology.

>>>>Thanks again for that post, I found it a good read.<<<

You're welcome.

>>>>Happy Christ-Buddha-Dao-Mohammad-Solstice-mas…<<<<

Happy Christmas is all I need, thanks

Hi everyone,

Just to clarify my own thinking on this, which goes something as follows. For me, discovery is as js points out, something that one finds: one finds or becomes aware of some fact or thing. However, truth is much more subtle, in that it is ones accordance with the discovered and known facts and more importantly the awareness of those facts which is subject to change. When one goes to sleep, ones surroundings disappear as an objective fact, and in accordance with that we allow ourselves to dream. Further, in my own mind, I make a distinction between this relative, religious truth (religion in the sense of the Latin religio-onis meaning obligation, bond and reverence) and that of Ultimate Truth, Truth with a capital ‘T’ which I think is something that comes out of the very centre of our own Beingness, and in that sense, I think is Created in a very real way. It has to do with Self knowledge, with the inner sense of who we really are, not some idea of emotional attachment to a virtual view, but a powerful knowing who/what one is. When coming from this perspective, Truth has meaning that is beyond words, beyond the façade of the mind. It is for want of an arrow to point with, to give it a name, Spiritual. And it is being recreated, re-incarnated moment by moment. That’s the Truth as I create it now, subject to revision and change; after all, all is change, change is all.

Thanks for letting me share that,

Love,

Sid

I liked your post JS. But when it got to the point you made and you said Jesus (God with us) was a whinner and complainer.. Please do explain..

Mugato refers to those who complain about the system as using the thing they are complaining about, in this instance government schooling, as an alibi for their "deficiencies". Using this reasoning anyone who objects to an oppression is making an alibi for their failure to succeed within the existing system. There is no oppression, there are only weaklings who can't "cut the mustard" in the existing system, the system is never at fault. I used Jesus as an example because he objected to oppression and injustice. He did not say "conform yourself to the system, whatever it is, whatever the cost, or you deserve to be weeded out and enslaved".

understood.