"My message was the public schools in the United States, are not doing the job they should and could be doing, to educate, it's students."

This is a very relative statement. And if you take this statement to its logical conclusion, then you believe in absolutes, not only absolutes but Jerry's versions of absolutes. "Free men are aware of the imperfection inherent in human affairs, and they are willing to fight and die for that which is not perfect. They know that basic human problems can have no final solutions, that our freedom, justice, equality, etc. are far from absolute, and that the good life is compounded of half measures, compromises, lesser evils, and gropings toward the perfect. The rejection of approximations and the insistence of absolutes are the manifestations of a nihilism that loathes freedom, tolerance, and equity."

" You on the other hand, take advantage of this site to bad mouth, judge, and attack this sites writters."

That's right I judge you. I judge you on your ideas and your ability to express them. Why sir, just like you judge the school systems.

The only one that I see that needs help is you.

"Stupidity does not consist in being without ideas. Such stupidity would be sweet, blissful stupidity of animals, mollusks and the gods. Human Stupidity consists in having lots of ideas, but stupid ones."

Mugato,
You are right I'm a stupid fool. Mustly because I trusted, and believed all that I learned in high school. And none of it worked in the real world. Our government works for big business. Banks, Insurance companies, even the Courts, and our laws support big business, our Churches want more seats filled, for the money, not the word of God. And our schools are not interested in educating our child, for the childs best interests, but for their own. They are dancing to the beat of big business, whom want laborers, not thinkers.
Now, if it helps you and your motivation, to insist on insulting others,. That's fine. I'm big enough to handle it. But it will not serve as helping the world become a better place, in which to live,. It will only help your own personal ego, by insulting others.
Jerry,

Are you here to defend the public school system? If so, please begin.

So far, you've exhibited condescending arrogance on behalf of a series of non sequiturs and gibberish (you know gibberish, I'm sure: that kind of talking which sounds like speech but has no real meaning?).

By the way, in regards to blaming others: personal responsibility is exactly what Gatto's work is about. It is the expropriation of personal destiny that the compulsory government Gulag is designed for that Gatto argues against. Obedience and compliance are the Gulag curriculum, and learning these things promotes neither responsibility nor accomplishment.

So please, stop with the namecalling and insults, already. There really is no point....

"government Gulag" and " stop with the namecalling and insults"

When men think and believe in one set of symbols and act in ways which are contrary to their professed and conscious ideas, confusion and insincerity are bound to result.

What would you have me call our government-run forced labor camps? In what sense are our "public schools" NOT Gulags? Is it namecalling when the name describes what the named in reality truly ARE?

I will grant, there ARE some differences between the Soviet rendition and ours:
-- our Gulags are specifically for CHILDREN
-- our Gulags are designed for ALL OF the children
-- our Gulags do not (usually) result in the physical destruction of the detainee (the forced labor is designed to make them USEFUL to the State ("society") for their entire natual lifetimes).

Mugato,
I'd like to ask you a couple of questions. Please try to rationilize your answers though without making this a personal verbal attack.
I'd like to know what you think the main problem is with respect to our United States, moving backwards in nearly every area possible?
I'd also like to know your suggestions for correcting those problems?
I've tired to explain my feelings, on both. My answers were: Our school systems were not only falling far short of goals. But were purposely brainwashing our young to be numbed down, or at least dumbed out, of reality, by our educational system. Another words did not want our young to grow up to be wiser than our leaders.
That would explain the problem, of our country moving in the wrong direction as a society.
The answer of course, would be to educate our young, to think, and thereby, resolve the problems.
Failure to correct our educational system will only contribute our social decay, and ethical problems. The integrity of our county is at stake, to those wise enough to think reasonably,.
I do indeed care about our country, it's people, and it's future. Many of my good friends are dead today, because we fought in Viet Nam because our government asked us too. We didn't have to go there. We could have gone to Canada, Sweden, or college instead. But we didn't. We did what was asked of us.
I'd probably do it again. Why? Because I think God put me here to help those whom ask for my help. And by doing so, I am blessed in return. To turn away from those in need of help, is very selfish and cowardly.
If I seem stupid, or foolish to some. I'd ask that you not teas me, or point out my shortfalls, to the world. But help me become all that I could be. And by doing so, help the world by living the will of God,.
Jerry,

I guess that makes me one. Pace George Lucas, there really IS a right and a wrong, truth and lies, good and evil.

Jerry,
Mugato will not defend the govschools because he can't, they are indefensible. He is attempting to change the issue of the morality and purpose of the state indoctrination gulag to the issue of the quality of your communication skills. If it makes you feel any better, I saw a TV interview of author John Irving. He explained that he is a very poor speller and gave his editors a great deal of credit in his work. Attacking someone who has spent 12 years in the govschools for their difficulties in this area is also blaming the victim. You are at a place many of us have been, awakening to the reality of the world from the sleep of the world defined for you in "school". What we are taught in the govschools is not reflected in reality; our ideas of liberty, fairness and justice learned in early childhood at home are at odds with the system we live under, in fact fairness and justice, right and wrong, good and evil are constantly being re-defined for us; as words no longer have meaning we descend into chaos.

js you and xandy have gotten past my poor writting skills and understand the issues, and explained the bulk of our counties educational problems. Thank you.
Your comments are very helpful in understanding why our country has infact declind over the years, even though the majority have worked very hard at moving the country forward.
Thank you. Jerry,

Jerry,

JS is a very confused person. She thinks she talks for everyone. If you ever want to know what or how to think, she's your girl. She will tell you how to live your life lickety split even in the middle of her own collapse.

Jerry read and find your own answers, but be very wary of this poster. She is a shill for the Lew Rockwell site.

>>>>>JS is a very confused person.<<<<<

Example/proof, please.

>>>>>She thinks she talks for everyone.<<<<<

Example/proof, please.

>>>>>>If you ever want to know what or how to think, she's your girl. She will tell you how to live your life lickety split . <<<

On the contrary, I am for everyone deciding individually how to live their own lives. I am against government indoctrination of children to accept collectives that do not exist and the behavioral training to the herd mentality and the perpetuation of that indoctrination gulag even though it may provide a lucrative living for the indoctrinators.

>>>even in the middle of her own collapse<<<<

Example/proof???

>>>>>Jerry read and find your own answers, but be very wary of this poster. She is a shill for the Lew Rockwell site.<<<<

Begs the question: What do you find wrong with the Lew Rockwell site? Jerry is to take your word that it is "bad"? I am a supporter of the site and frequently post articles from there. Perhaps Jerry hasn't seen it. Thanks for the opportunity to recommend it.

"I'd like to ask you a couple of questions. Please try to rationilize your answers though without making this a personal verbal attack."

Ok Jerry, first all I did not attack you verbally, I can type without my lips moving. And secondly, I pointed out glaring problems with your ability to communicate.

"I'd like to know what you think the main problem is with respect to our United States, moving backwards in nearly every area possible?"

Are you asking me or are you telling me that we are moving backwards. Are we moving backward? How do you know? Are some moving back and others moving forward?

"I'd also like to know your suggestions for correcting those problems?"

I'm moving forward. I know many of you in this 12 point program called "The Odysseus Group" have fallen behind, but that is not indicative of the general population. That would be anecdotal evidence.

"I've tired to explain my feelings, on both."

Yes, I know how you feel. But I don't know how you think. You write like a Junior Gatto, its all feelings and hasty generalizations.

"My answers were: Our school systems were not only falling far short of goals."

Our? I don't have a school system Jerry nor do I care about yours. The only wonder is why do you? Why don't you hire tutors for your kids?

"But were purposely brainwashing our young to be numbed down, or at least dumbed out, of reality, by our educational system. Another words did not want our young to grow up to be wiser than our leaders."

Take me to your leader...(in my best 1960's robot voice). Are leaders smart Jerry or are they popular?

That would explain the problem, of our country moving in the wrong direction as a society."

Jerry the world is getting better everyday and yet you have a sinking feeling. Do you think maybe the sinking feeling is localized to you?

"The answer of course, would be to educate our young, to think, and thereby, resolve the problems."

Yes, Jerry education and learning are good things.

"Failure to correct our educational system will only contribute our social decay, and ethical problems. The integrity of our county is at stake, to those wise enough to think reasonably,."

Jerry, are you saying we should teach morals in schools. I cannot believe you wrote that. Are you saying that the concepts of right and wrong exist in our moral relativist society? That is dangerous talk Jerry.

"I do indeed care about our country, it's people, and it's future. Many of my good friends are dead today, because we fought in Viet Nam because our government asked us too. We didn't have to go there. We could have gone to Canada, Sweden, or college instead. But we didn't. We did what was asked of us."

Jerry I am hoping it was more to do with you thinking it was the right thing to do and not the government telling you to do it.

"I'd probably do it again. Why? Because I think God put me here to help those whom ask for my help. And by doing so, I am blessed in return. To turn away from those in need of help, is very selfish and cowardly."

Jerry, what happens in your world if they don't want your help? This country was founded by rugged individualist that didn't need the busybodies of the world.

"If I seem stupid, or foolish to some. I'd ask that you not teas me, or point out my shortfalls, to the world. But help me become all that I could be. And by doing so, help the world by living the will of God,."

Jerry I think you need to focus on Jerry. It is plain to see that you want to live a weighty life and do well by your fellow man. In my very humble opinion, you are breaking away from yourself to join a cause so you can throw off your "Jerriness" and be one of the crowd. The million dollar question is why do you want to do this? And why did you pick this crowd?

Mugato

And why pick on a newcomer like Jerry? Easier prey?

"I'd like to ask you a couple of questions. Please try to rationilize your answers though without making this a personal verbal attack."

"Ok Jerry, first all I did not attack you verbally, I can type without my lips moving"

Ok Mugato, here is the speech-language pathologist to tell you that verbal language includes both oral and written forms according to accepted definitions used by folks like me who deal with language development and disorders. Non-verbal language refers to paralinguistic features(e.g. intonation, pause, proxemics, gesture etc.), not typing. You did not attack Jerry "orally" but you did attack him "verbally" using verbal language in the written rather than the oral modality. I'm not sure why, and some of what you write sounds intriguing but you are way too obscure for me.
Leslie in KY

writing skills aside, you make your point just fine

OTH, you are right, nastiness says so much about a person- even when they are eloquent in their nastinesss

I wont be leaving anymore messages on this site.
I have tried to contribute, and ask questions within reason. But it is clear that after one week, of participation. All I'm getting are wiles, and jibberish slander.
In closing, I want all to know that I was trying to help solve a couple is serious problems in our society. But have found that these problems are very much alive and well. So much so that I presently feel
like we deserve exactly what we have, and knowthing more. Jerry,

Don't take the class clown seriously

m((((hugs team))))

Eye xpekt No 1 2 unda stnd dis.

Because its hot already and no one will notice.

The message is not the medium.

I like mine medium rare, not to hot I guess...

Create Your Own Truth.

Love

Sid

FYI
The Mugato is a big bear of white color, with a horn to the center of the head. it is a voracious carnivorous that lives in the Neural planet. His bite is poisonous and leads to the death through atrocious sufferings in a very short lack of time. The only person able to heal the bite of the Mugato is a Kanatu. The Kanatu cuts her hand, then uses a live root to heal the poisonous bite. But this root acts as a love potion and the person whose blood has mixed with that of the Kanatu are tied up to the his wishes and will obey her without hesitation.

Ever read Marva Collins Way? It's a story about an excellent teacher who taught underpriveledged kids in her own private school after quitting the public schools she could see were not serving the kids. You'd probably like it, as well as Gatto's works.