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The Odysseus Group's Education Debate & Discussion Forum

This forum has been created for you, so feel free to use it often to share your ideas, insights, and experiences from which we all can learn. Please note that we will remove postings if they: a) are not germane to the subject of education, b) are advertisements or sales pitches, c) contain profanity, obscenity, or comments that are insulting to readers.

The Odysseus Group's Education Debate & Discussion Forum
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Re: Re: Symbols, standards and fear

JS,
" I think my brother in law is just "socialized". He is an extremely nice man, but one of the "quietly desperate" types."

JS, can't you imagine the mental condition of a person that bought into socialism as a young person, perhaps as a child, and has gotten to the point they realize the system doesn't and can't work. Going further they come to realize the entire socialist system operates on the basis of unfulfilled promises. He will never get back what he has put into the system nor will he ever see the promises to him and others fulfilled. Worse at this time in his life he has no idea how self reliance and capitalism would work to his advantage -- don't forget in the schools where he was socialized he was also shortchanged on any knowledge that is required to stand on his own.
Ron

No force.

Hakim Bey ( if you look him up be warned he is a Radical Anarchist-Not a pretty picture Free marketer) wrote a book called T.A.Z. (Temporary Autonomous Zones) in which he described how individuals who want to be free in an increasingly top down world will seek out time and place where they can express themselves and be free. As the poster above mentioned most people enjoy being captives, slaves if you will. Freedom is hard stuff. That's why I say I don't think you will see a free flowing anarchy or decentralization any time soon.
Just wondering, but you seem very radicalized to your notion of anarchy and decentralization. Is this because it is a new one? I've been all about what you preach for a long time and I've had a chance for it to soak in and the initial urgency has passed.

Re: No force.

I don't think my views are urgent as much as just strong. You are right, some folks don't want freedom, and I'm not against them not having it at all. If people want to live as hive creatures, joiners, or part of a herd of 10 minute haters that doesn't bother me, I think they should be free to do it, I think they should be free to contract into slavery if they want. The thing that bothers me is the well-meaning people who think that "we" must cure all social ills which automatically defaults everyone into the herd of slaves working for others (which I believe is now 107 workdays out of the year). When they say "we" they are taking my choice and freedom from me. Of course if I object I am selfish, hate the poor, etc. I don't mean to preach, I usually respond when someone posts something that needs to be supported or refuted. I have had these feelings and ideas for my entire life but never understood really why until I got online and read people who thought as I did. I have been in work and school situations where we were put through the consensus shaping process, facilitation, all that change-agent stuff. I encountered it again when I was active in my kids' school, I just didn't understand what was going on, the process being used on us. So, no, this isn't a new passion, although my conversion to Christianity is.


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