Do you think it is relevant what THEY attribute it to?
And who are the 'british' that you are talking about: ordinary sheeple or their labourist superiors?

I was just curious. No bigee.

Dave

Looks like guns are making a comeback. Even Dick Cheney may learn how to use a gun.

The Supremes will rule

chicagotribune

"D.C. gun case may hit Chicago
City's law is next target if foes win in Supreme Court

By James Oliphant | Washington Bureau
10:02 PM CDT, September 4, 2007

WASHINGTON - Those who would do away with Washington's near-total ban on handguns will tell you point-blank their next target: Chicago.

Gun-rights advocates scored a stunning success earlier this year when a three-judge panel of a federal appeals court in Washington swept aside the District of Columbia's ban on owning handguns, which had been in place since 1976.

On Tuesday, the district government appealed the decision to the Supreme Court. If the court takes the case, as many observers believe it will, it could place Chicago's handgun ban, as well as similar laws nationwide, in jeopardy."

Guy ****** off at Parliament

news.bbc.co.uk

Dave,

Think the "feminists and weenie men" have invaded the Swiss Army and Parliament?

Harv

Hotel shooting, Swiss gun debate

swissinfo.org

"April 13, 2007 - 4:35 PM
Gunman uses army rifle in hotel shooting

Image caption: Easy access: Swiss men keep their military rifles, as used in the shooting in Baden, at home

Related stories
Centre-left wants to end Swiss gun tradition
Army weapons "kill 300 people a year"
Women's magazine hands in gun ban petition

A 26-year-old Swiss has killed one man and injured four others, one critically, after opening fire with his army assault rifle in a Swiss hotel.

The latest in a series of fatalities involving army weapons which all able-bodied Swiss men have to keep at home with ammunition will add fuel to the heated political debate over reforming the country's gun laws. . . ."


Dave,

Nice chatting with you. I'm signing off for a while now, taking that break you mentioned recently. All Googling and posting make Harvey a dull girl.

Harv

>>>Oh, js, you are just too clever for me what with your cut-and-paste lewrockwell.com articles.<<<<

Sarcastic insult and attempt to discredit an article because of where it came from. Please address the substantive points.


>>>> Such superior intellect and reading and analytical ability you display in slapping down any article and posting it here to support your pro-gun, anti-war, anti-state, pro-market "thinking."<<<

More sarcastic insulting. What is wrong with "slapping down any article" that supports the right to self defense, pro-individual liberty, anti-mass murder, and pro-economic liberty?? I really don't understand your aversion to those things.

>>>>Well, golly, js, I can't cut and paste the word good, because he doesn't use that word. That's why in my last post I said implied, because he certainly does imply it.<<<<

He does not. You can't post any word or phrase where he even "implies " it. He is talking about the knowledge of returning vets, knowledge they obtained as soldiers. War is not the only way to obtain skill and understanding of firearms, but that and hunting are the primary ways men of that generation obtained it. He does not say "we need more war so we can have firearms instruction" or "good thing we had that war because we learned how to handle weapons". It was a consequence, just as my lifelong relationship with my best friend resulted in my having been forced into the govschool gulag for 12 years. Do I endorse the gulag so people can make friends or go to the prom?? Of course not.

>>>> He lauds the heroism of men who went through the Depression and were forced by the state to get drafted, fight in WWII and go to school on the GI Bill, some coming away with souvenirs in their closets like the guns they took off dead soldiers. Such wholesome trinkets!<<<<

Men were ripped from their civilian life, stripped of their individuality and humanity through "boot camp", indoctrinated into collectivist, animalistic behavior in order to become part of a war machine and you sneer at their actions on a battlefield having shot someone first who was shooting at them. Guns are not trinkets, there are many reasons why a soldier might take the weapon of a dead enemy off a battlefield.I don't know if receiving the GI Bill was adequate compensation for war duty, I know I wouldn't make the trade and many never lived to collect their education. Tough noogies for those killers, right?

>>>>>If it's not what the state forces on people but what people salvage from the carnage, then why didn't people salvage manliness and gallantry from the Korean "conflict," Vietnam, Desert Storm and the current Iraqi war that you love to say Jesus wouldn't have condoned? WWII was just another case of individuals and your notion of God "turning bad into good" or making a silk purse out of a sow's ear?<<<<

WW2 was supposedly the "war to end all wars" as was WW1. It is beginning to look like there has been a continuous simmering war with periodic flareups ever since. Men fought all out during WW2, there were no rules keeping them from shooting here, being sitting ducks there. That is why WW2 is frequently called the Good War. There was the Great Satans Hitler and Hirohito, Good vs. evil, payback for the engineered attack at Pearl, it was a masterpiece of political strategy designed to enrich the military industrial complex and divvy up the world among the superpowers( Too bad commie FDR was outfoxed by his commie Uncle Joe Stalin).The Korean war, vietnam war, etc. have been unconstitutional undeclared political police actions where the enemy was difficult to even define, much less identify. They were/are conflicts designed to enrich some at the expense of others, there is no real enemy, no real interests of the US involved. They are increasingly managed by bureaucrats not battle seasoned vets. The point is to run a nice little "never ending war on evil" that transfers wealth and property and reduces troublesome populations of peasants. Do you think the rulers don't know that they are teaching the peasants how to use firearms? Did you notice that during Bush's speech in Iraq the other day that no soldier had a gun except the one guarding the Decider?? Of course Jesus doesn't condone war, and neither do I.

>>>>If you're against war, why aren't you lauding the conscientious objectors of WWII who volunteered to be subjects in experiments or who went to prison and were utterly reviled for resisting the draft?<<<<

Wha-at?? Because that wasn't germane to the discussion here.

>>>> Not the kind of manhood you think is a character-building example for the young? Not the kind of manliness demonstrated by the "Christian" founder of Blackwater who was a Navy Seal? Which way do you want it, js, the "nanny state" nurturing men's manhood through the draft and war or your style of Christianity through you sanctimonious "Jesus never condoned violence" spiels?<<<<<

I am sorry buy you are way out of line. You are putting words and ideas in my mouth. I did not post anything about Blackwater, I did not endorse any "nanny state" nurturing manhood. It does not. I posted an article that pointed out a consequence of having firearms knowledge and how that knowledge was obtained. I neither called it good or bad. Maybe that is what is bothering you. I do reject war as a training ground for firearms use. I think it should be taught by the family. Unfortunately a lot of men learned it in wars.Period. Insulting me and calling me "sanctimonious" lends nothing to your argument.

>>>>Maybe what the state you hate needs to do is arrange another Great Depression and draft people to fight in a WWIII to help them develop character and ability to fend off attackers.<<<<

Just like Gatto should just shut up and support the schools so kids can "make friends" and play football?

>>> Or, maybe the "kiddie collectives" are good enough pens for young people, as good as any US Army barracks with soldiers snapping to to the command of drill sergeants. If it's not what the state forces people to do--oh, where's that free will? Oh, no, I shouldn't mention free will, because that might be "blaming the victim" you like to fall back on.<<<<

The kiddie collectives are the means that people are indoctrinated to accept conscription and support illogical wars. Yes. You are blaming the victims.

>>>>>>As I was saying, if it's not what the state forces people to do, but what the people can salvage from the state's predations, then forcing people to go to school for the first 13 years of their lives should also be a character-building experience, especially for the kids with no job prospects who are eager to enlist in the military.<<<<

Again, you are putting words in my mouth and in that article that were not there. And you KNOW they were not there and you are wrong and that is the reason for this insulting tirade.

>>>>I await another one of your cut-and-pasties from lewrockwell.com. No, not really.<<<

You are lucky to live in a time when such champions of liberty are fighting for your socialist hide.

You know I love your socialist hide, Babu.

I know, I'm a socialist, Democrats are communists, Ralph Nader's a fascist and Senator Joe McCarthy's one of your heroes.

I'll have to "Write to Lew" and thank him for making the world safer for Wal-Mart.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

You know I love your socialist hide, Babu.

js,

A tirade, was it? Well, maybe like fat, it's contagious, since I listened to you screech for pages about Curtis White being a communist.

Never mind. Now that you've set me straight on my good fortune in having lewrockwell.com folks fight for my liberty, I'll have to join the NRA and think about what kind of gun Jesus would buy.

Harv

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

>>>Oh, js, you are just too clever for me what with your cut-and-paste lewrockwell.com articles.<<<<

Sarcastic insult and attempt to discredit an article because of where it came from. Please address the substantive points.


>>>> Such superior intellect and reading and analytical ability you display in slapping down any article and posting it here to support your pro-gun, anti-war, anti-state, pro-market "thinking."<<<

More sarcastic insulting. What is wrong with "slapping down any article" that supports the right to self defense, pro-individual liberty, anti-mass murder, and pro-economic liberty?? I really don't understand your aversion to those things.

>>>>Well, golly, js, I can't cut and paste the word good, because he doesn't use that word. That's why in my last post I said implied, because he certainly does imply it.<<<<

He does not. You can't post any word or phrase where he even "implies " it. He is talking about the knowledge of returning vets, knowledge they obtained as soldiers. War is not the only way to obtain skill and understanding of firearms, but that and hunting are the primary ways men of that generation obtained it. He does not say "we need more war so we can have firearms instruction" or "good thing we had that war because we learned how to handle weapons". It was a consequence, just as my lifelong relationship with my best friend resulted in my having been forced into the govschool gulag for 12 years. Do I endorse the gulag so people can make friends or go to the prom?? Of course not.

>>>> He lauds the heroism of men who went through the Depression and were forced by the state to get drafted, fight in WWII and go to school on the GI Bill, some coming away with souvenirs in their closets like the guns they took off dead soldiers. Such wholesome trinkets!<<<<

Men were ripped from their civilian life, stripped of their individuality and humanity through "boot camp", indoctrinated into collectivist, animalistic behavior in order to become part of a war machine and you sneer at their actions on a battlefield having shot someone first who was shooting at them. Guns are not trinkets, there are many reasons why a soldier might take the weapon of a dead enemy off a battlefield.I don't know if receiving the GI Bill was adequate compensation for war duty, I know I wouldn't make the trade and many never lived to collect their education. Tough noogies for those killers, right?

>>>>>If it's not what the state forces on people but what people salvage from the carnage, then why didn't people salvage manliness and gallantry from the Korean "conflict," Vietnam, Desert Storm and the current Iraqi war that you love to say Jesus wouldn't have condoned? WWII was just another case of individuals and your notion of God "turning bad into good" or making a silk purse out of a sow's ear?<<<<

WW2 was supposedly the "war to end all wars" as was WW1. It is beginning to look like there has been a continuous simmering war with periodic flareups ever since. Men fought all out during WW2, there were no rules keeping them from shooting here, being sitting ducks there. That is why WW2 is frequently called the Good War. There was the Great Satans Hitler and Hirohito, Good vs. evil, payback for the engineered attack at Pearl, it was a masterpiece of political strategy designed to enrich the military industrial complex and divvy up the world among the superpowers( Too bad commie FDR was outfoxed by his commie Uncle Joe Stalin).The Korean war, vietnam war, etc. have been unconstitutional undeclared political police actions where the enemy was difficult to even define, much less identify. They were/are conflicts designed to enrich some at the expense of others, there is no real enemy, no real interests of the US involved. They are increasingly managed by bureaucrats not battle seasoned vets. The point is to run a nice little "never ending war on evil" that transfers wealth and property and reduces troublesome populations of peasants. Do you think the rulers don't know that they are teaching the peasants how to use firearms? Did you notice that during Bush's speech in Iraq the other day that no soldier had a gun except the one guarding the Decider?? Of course Jesus doesn't condone war, and neither do I.

>>>>If you're against war, why aren't you lauding the conscientious objectors of WWII who volunteered to be subjects in experiments or who went to prison and were utterly reviled for resisting the draft?<<<<

Wha-at?? Because that wasn't germane to the discussion here.

>>>> Not the kind of manhood you think is a character-building example for the young? Not the kind of manliness demonstrated by the "Christian" founder of Blackwater who was a Navy Seal? Which way do you want it, js, the "nanny state" nurturing men's manhood through the draft and war or your style of Christianity through you sanctimonious "Jesus never condoned violence" spiels?<<<<<

I am sorry buy you are way out of line. You are putting words and ideas in my mouth. I did not post anything about Blackwater, I did not endorse any "nanny state" nurturing manhood. It does not. I posted an article that pointed out a consequence of having firearms knowledge and how that knowledge was obtained. I neither called it good or bad. Maybe that is what is bothering you. I do reject war as a training ground for firearms use. I think it should be taught by the family. Unfortunately a lot of men learned it in wars.Period. Insulting me and calling me "sanctimonious" lends nothing to your argument.

>>>>Maybe what the state you hate needs to do is arrange another Great Depression and draft people to fight in a WWIII to help them develop character and ability to fend off attackers.<<<<

Just like Gatto should just shut up and support the schools so kids can "make friends" and play football?

>>> Or, maybe the "kiddie collectives" are good enough pens for young people, as good as any US Army barracks with soldiers snapping to to the command of drill sergeants. If it's not what the state forces people to do--oh, where's that free will? Oh, no, I shouldn't mention free will, because that might be "blaming the victim" you like to fall back on.<<<<

The kiddie collectives are the means that people are indoctrinated to accept conscription and support illogical wars. Yes. You are blaming the victims.

>>>>>>As I was saying, if it's not what the state forces people to do, but what the people can salvage from the state's predations, then forcing people to go to school for the first 13 years of their lives should also be a character-building experience, especially for the kids with no job prospects who are eager to enlist in the military.<<<<

Again, you are putting words in my mouth and in that article that were not there. And you KNOW they were not there and you are wrong and that is the reason for this insulting tirade.

>>>>I await another one of your cut-and-pasties from lewrockwell.com. No, not really.<<<

You are lucky to live in a time when such champions of liberty are fighting for your socialist hide.

Cute. Probably made you feel good but does not address the points.

What do you expect from the students, if the principal tells a 9 YO boy, who has just received several painful kicks (one of them resulting in an injury requiring an operation) from his classmate: 'You should not have taken him into the lock on the floor - you must have called the teachers! Your reaction was violent.'

Call the teachers, up your ass! He is a talented Aikido student and if he wanted a violent reaction, we would be looking at broken arms.

The school policy is to never respond to violence, back off, hide away under the desks and stay quiet. The students did what they were told to do and died.

Our government, schools and corporations do not want self reliant, self sufficient thinking individuals. There is a video on YouTube of an instructor taking a cellphone from a student after it rang and smashing it on the floor. If an instructor had done that to me when I was 18 someone would have gotten his a$$ kicked in that class room.

Now he would probably just find the tires of his car slashed because I wouldn't want to get kicked out of school. The cellphone wouldn't be worth that much aggravation.

psik

I forgot to mention:

I think martial arts should be mandatory for boys and optional but encouraged for girls.

What can I say, I'm still a chauvinist.

LOL

psik

The martial arts are viewed in N. American society as exotic waste of time at best. Still the same root cause: indoctrinated reliance on 911/Superman/Carebears you name it. I met quite a few converts here and each had a story for the turning point in his life that moved them to enter MA. Each story I heard did not remotely involve cops, at least up until a few hours later.

I might be naive, but to me it looks like the mass media discourages MA training. Too many movies and cartoons where a miracle turns a weakling into super human.

I went to college with a Chinese kid that had studied Kung Fu in New York where he grew up. He told my that his Kung Fu master told him that he would not teach Kung Fu to Westerners because they turn everything into a sport.

Machiavelli and Sun Tzu both wrote books titled The Art of War, but the thinking behind them is very different. Macho bullsh!t is European nonsense.

psik

I was looking for Zen and the Art of Archery (Herrigel's book) and just came across this article that I thought might interest you.

The Liberal Arts and the Martial Arts

aiki-extensions

Harv

Good read, tks JS...

Lots of talks here at home wondering why 'one' nutcase was able to kill so many people. Perhaps the people/adult students thought he wasn't real? Too many video game mentalities? dahhhhhh? You think?