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Comment
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Karl
Sep 30, 08 - 3:37 AM |
What has worked for you?
I always have found it helpful and motivational to hear other peoples stories on what has helped (or not helped) with back pain.
Personally, i have tired 2 chiros, 2 osteos, 3 physios and had very limited success.
I find a good deep tissue massage helps but only for up to a week before i get all knotted up and twisted again.
Inversion theraphy helped at the begining but the affects wore off.
The best things have been LTBP and Egoscue. Neither has helped me become pain free but i can control my lapses better. Both systems have also given me a better understanding of my problems.
Just need to find that next step which will give me that extra 20% to become pain free and live my usual active lifestyle again.
The one thing i have learnt through my 2 and half years of back pain is that there isnt a magic pill and its going to require some hard work to get there!
Would like to hear others peoples stories too!
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paul
Sep 30th, 2008 - 8:10 AM |
Re: What has worked for you?
egoscue
robot
ltbp
massage
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dave hutchieson
Sep 30th, 2008 - 10:11 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Karl
Have you had your SI joints thoroughly checked out ?
Dave Hutchieson
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Karl
Oct 1st, 2008 - 3:23 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Hi Dave
Not sure to be honest. I have seen several chiros and osteos, should they check for this?
Naturally i am aware of the issues you had with you SI joint and additionally the problems you had in trying to find someone who agreed with your diagnosis. What type of therapist/doctor/etc would be best qualified to asses the SI joint?
Dont seem to be getting to much pain in my lower back anymore, it has moved to my right hip both front and back.
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Steven Hefferon
Oct 1st, 2008 - 4:41 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Here is our point of view... ALL of the different treatments and modalities will work better when you address the physical aspect first...
All of the different treatments and modalities work and have there place but absent physical balance and postural stability....
People will continue to say....
"I have tried everything and nothing seams to work..."
For example if you ask me, spinal decompression, all be it DRX or Inversion, is the last 20% of improvement not the first 80%.
With that said you can speed recovery even more if you combine treatments and that is something that most people do once they start on a Muscle Balance Therapy...
Steve
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dave hutchieson
Oct 1st, 2008 - 9:36 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Karl
SI joint experts are few and far between in the UK.
You can call these guys:
http://www.solihullbackpainclinic.co.uk/
Lak Singh has been to see them.
They should be able to assess whether you have an SI joint problem.
Now, a word of warning: They don't believe that muscular imbalances cause back pain.
I'm not even going to start going down that path with them, as I'd be here to the next millenium.
However, they have had success in treating a number of people, including sports and media personalities.
They do however use muscular techniques in their treatment [ go figure !! ].
I'd give them a call.
Again, I’d give them three stars out of five, but better than nothing.
If you have tried everything with LTBP, have someone check your pelvis to see if one hip bone [ ilium ] is MORE rotated than the other:
Two methods:
1. Lay down on a flat kitchen floor. Shorts only. Have someone take their index fingers and place them exactly on your ASIS points. They will be able to see which ilium is more rotated [ if one actually is ]. The ASIS which is more forward corresponds to the side of the pelvis which is more forward.
2. This is the one I use and is the most accurate. Get a builder's level with three bubbles in it. I use a Stanley Professional unit.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stanley-LEVEL-1200MM-VIALS-MAGNETIC/dp/B000P5V9E6
Click on “See Larger Image”
Lay on the floor as before. The idea now is to place one side of the level on one ASIS and then line the unit up so it is exactly horizontal with respect to your body. The other side may or may not touch the other ASIS. Have the person look at all three bubbles individually [ one horizontal, two vertical ]. Now if all bubbles are in the center of their respective marks in the little plastic windows, great. However, on the vertical bubbles, if one side is higher than the other, that is actually the side that has the ASIS further down towards your feet.
DON’T LOOK AT THIS LINK IF DISSECTION PHOTOS BOTHER YOU.
http://www.ithaca.edu/faculty/lahr/LE2000/hip pics/9zzASIS.jpg
THIS NEXT ONE IS OK FOR ALL:
http://images.teamsugar.com/files/users/1/12981/33_2007/asis.jpg
THIS IS THE POINT THAT MOST PHYSICAL THERAPISTS MAKE A MISTAKE ON. WHEN THE ASIS MOVES DOWN TOWARDS YOUR FEET, THAT SIDE IS THE SIDE WITH MOST "TILT". HOWEVER, AS THE ASIS MOVES DOWN, THE HIP ROTATES FORWARD AND THE BONE ABOVE THE ASIS RISES UP. DIFFICULT TO DESCRIBE, BUT GIVE IT A TRY.
IN A NUTSHELL, IF ONE SIDE IS HIGHER ON THE EXACTLY HORIZONTAL LEVEL, THAT IS THE SIDE THAT IS ROTATED MORE.
IF I HAD A SKELETON MODEL TO SHOW YOU WOULD SEE WHAT I MEAN.
TO PROVE THIS, I WORKED ON MY ILIACUS MUSCLES WITH THE ROBOT TODAY TO GET MY PELVIS EXACTLY BALANCED [ BOTH ASIS POINTS EXACTLY ACROSS FROM ONE ANOTHER ].
I THEN WORKED ON JUST ONE SIDE FOR NEARLY AN HOUR TO DELIBERATELY UNBALANCE MY PELVIS. IN OTHER WORDS TO LOOSEN MY ONE ILIACUS A BIT MORE THAN THE OTHER.
I GOT UP AND WALKED AROUND FOR AN HOUR.
I HAD PAINS ON ONE SIDE OF MY BODY, HIP AND ALL DOWN MY LEG. NOT PLEASANT.
I THEN SPENT ANOTHER HOUR WORKING THE OTHER SIDE TO GET THEM BACK IN BALANCE.
GOT UP, ALL PAIN GONE.
THEN I DELIBERATELY WORKED JUST THE OTHER SIDE FOR AN HOUR.
GOT UP, AND FELT PAIN IN OPPOSITE HIP AND DOWN MY LEG.
LAY BACK DOWN AND WORKED ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE FOR AN HOUR.
NOW BOTH SIDES WERE ONCE AGAIN REBALANCED.
GOT UP, ALL PAIN GONE.
BALANCE IS SO IMPORTANT.
IT'S NO USE JUST SAYING A PELVIS IS FORWARD TILTED, WE MUST FIND OUT IF BOTH SIDES ARE TILTED EQUALLY OR IF ONE IS MORE OFF THAN THE OTHER.
IT ONLY NEEDS 5 DEGREES OF ROTATIONAL TWISTING OF THE SPINE TO CAUSE THE VERTEBRAE TO PRESS INTO NERVES COMING OUT OF THE INTERVERTREBRAL FORAMEN.
WHERE CAN THAT COME FROM ? FROM AN UNBALANCED PELVIS.
Dave
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Karl
Oct 2nd, 2008 - 3:33 AM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Hi Dave
as always great info.
I certainly feel that the issue is with my right hip not being balanced. I sometimes feel like my right and left side are actually two different parts that dont work together.
I was on the train yesterday and was making sure to sit with good posture but it didnt feel like i had my right glute in contact properly with the chair even though i was trying to sit flush. When i sit i feel like i automatically tilt slightly to the left and more weight through my left glute.
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dave hutchieson
Oct 2nd, 2008 - 12:59 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Hi Karl
You almost definitely have some pelvic twisting going on there from your description of the train ride.
I know that the builder's level thing sounds strange, but it is a very accurate method of measuring your pelvic balance.
There is a company in New England that makes an amazing little device that meaures not only forward tilting but high hip, and the amount by which each is out.
Am saving up to buy one.
Using engineering principles, all of these problems can be helped.
I'd try to get that test done as soon as possible.
That way, you'll know the offending area, and can concentrate on it.
A twisted pelvis or asymmetrical pelvis can cause all sorts of pains in the hip area, leg area, groin area and can lead to scoliosis.
I had to deliberately unbalance myself in order to prove that all the engineering principles which I believe in with respect to the back are correct.
The iliacus, psoas and quadratus lumborum muscles are so very, very, important in all this.
For sciatica, those guys as above plus piriformis, tensor fascia latae and ilio-tibial band.
Forward head and shoulders have to be corrected also in all cases.
Dave
This has now 100% convinced me of those principles.
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Weight Training Paul
Oct 2nd, 2008 - 5:56 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Great post Dave, you really do put an awesome effort into this board
That was outrageous that you deliberately unbalanced yourself, certainly proved your point though, did you do that with your portable robot or with Al ?
Do you think that the SI joint could become loose if pectineus and the adductors were tight, or is it just the IP muscle which would do that ?
That is a good idea with the spirit level as well
I feel exactly the same as Karl with what he said to a T
Karl, you know if you stand, feet in line and look down at your legs is one leg further forward, even though both feet are in line, my right leg is, all of the thigh, not much but it's definitely there
Also you know if you feel your iliacus, pectineus area can you feel tiny " meat balls " under the skin, I can swish them around with my fingers, their not sensitive, but I can never swish them out, what are they, they must be the knots ?
Paul
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dave hutchieson
Oct 3rd, 2008 - 1:00 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Tks Paul
I did it with the robot.
I had a few knots in my stomach when I did it, but knew that if I did not, then everything that I have been saying up to this point would have been just words on paper.
I would STRONGLY advise everyone to get a level and start checking their pelvises.
You will be amazed at what you see.
Step 2 is to lay face down on the kitchen floor and have someone put the level across your lower back.
9 times out of ten it will be tilted.
This is becasue the erector spinae muscles [ the group of big muscles running up and won the spine ] are imbalanced. i.e. one side has the muscles bulging more than the other.
Stand in front of a mirror,only wearing shorts, hands by sides.
Relax.
Now look in the mirror.
Do both arms have an equal gap with your sides ?
In most cases no.
Does one "love handle" on your waist seem more bulging than the other ?
That's because of your oblique muscles being out of balance.
Dave
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Karl
Oct 3rd, 2008 - 3:36 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Ironically the more i read and understand about the back and numerous muscles involved the more daunting it becomes about trying to get everything back into some kind of balance.
Going to the back pain expo in London tomorrow, so hope to pick up some interesting info/pointers there!
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Karl
Oct 3rd, 2008 - 3:49 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Just stood in front of the mirror and its very interesting. On my right side my arm/hand are in contact with the right half of my body, on my left it doesnt happen. Also my right hand sits lower, suggesting my shoulder is lower on my right side.
So from my crude estimations, my right hip is slightly higher and twisted forward, whilst my right shoulder sits lower than the left!
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fred wade
Oct 3rd, 2008 - 4:04 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Dave, where can I buy the tool that mesures the pelvis tilt?
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dave hutchieson
Oct 3rd, 2008 - 8:08 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Hi Karl
What is probably happening is that your right quadratus lumborum muscle has become very tight, not only pulling your hip up, but your shoulder down, due to the rib cage being pulled down.
http://www.realbodywork.com/learn/torso/QL.jpg
I can almost guarantee that you have some degree of scoliosis.
Wear just shorts, bend forward from the waist and have someone photograph your back.
I'm almost certain you'll see the "knobly bits " [ spinous processes ] are not in a straight line.
Dave
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dave hutchieson
Oct 3rd, 2008 - 8:11 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Hi Fred
If you go to this website, lok for the Palpation Meter.
It looks like a pair of callipers.
http://www.spineproducts.com
You can get cheaper ones off Amazon.com.
The spirit level or builder's level will give you good results if used carefully.
Dave
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Karl
Oct 4th, 2008 - 4:30 AM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Have seen on both MRI and xray that i do jabe a slight scoliosis.
I had a deep tissue massage on tuesday with someone i hadnt seen before. It was the first time somone went very deep and he worked on my QL and mentioned how tight it was. Since then i have been 95% pain free.
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dave hutchieson
Oct 4th, 2008 - 12:36 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Hi Karl
I'm really pleased.
A tight QL sets up a whole chain of bad things in your body.
Golfers are especially prone to problems, as they do everything one sided.
They are right behind NFL football players in terms of back pain.
If they only swung to the right, then swung to the left during practice, it would get rid of 90% of all golfers' problems.
They wouldn't even have to aim on the opposite side, just swing the ball, and use the other side's set of muscles.
Dave
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Karl
Oct 5th, 2008 - 6:11 AM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Probably wouldnt suprise you to say that i used to play a lot golf a few years ago. Hopefully i will play again and i will make sure i swing both ways to avoid future issues.
Strange how this is the fourth massage therpist i have seen in two years and the first one to attack the QL. Will ask him to also work on my Piriformis, Piriformis, psoas muscle and see where we get.
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dave hutchieson
Oct 5th, 2008 - 1:46 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Hi Karl
Two interesting things about the piriformis:
1. The number of doctors who realise that the piriformis is responsible for sciatica in about 75% of patients - almost zero.
2. The number of physical therapists who understand WHY the piriformis has become tight in the first place - almost zero.
The "sciatic" nerve is actually not "A" nerve at all, but a group of nerves.
There is not one individual "sciatic nerve".
Now, this group of nerves runs from the lower back, down the buttock area and down the back of the leg.
IF YOU HAVE PAIN DOWN THE SIDE OF YOUR LEG, YOU DO NOT HAVE SCIATICA. MORE ON THAT IN A MINUTE.
The "sciatic nerve" then runs either through the piriformis, under it, or part on either side.
Sciatic pain can come from disk pressure, small bone growths called osteophytes or other spinal issues.
It can also come from pressure caused by the piriformis.
Or, it can come from both [ as was my case ].
If you were to MRI the whole US poulation today, you would find about half to sixty percent would show some from of disk problem, yet only a very small percentage would feel pain [ by the way, this has been confirmed in the New England Journal of Medicine ].
Why?
I won't get into all of that now, but your spinal cord is made up of a group of nerves. Only about ten percent of them are pain nerves.
So, a herniation can dig in quite far before any pain is felt, depending on how the pain nerves are distributed.
Problem is, doctors see the MRI herniation and automatically assume that is where the sciatica comes from.
Off goes the patient to surgery.
Unfortunatley, in many cases, the pain is actually coming from the piriformis.
They come out of surgery, with all the new pain and scar tissue, and the sciatica is still there.
I see this time and time again.
But that's not the end of the story.
If they're lucky, they find someone who knows about the piriformis, and they get worked on.
Pain disappears.
But in some cases, it keeps coming back.
Therapist says "Well, it's what you're doing".
Half right answer.
http://www.eorthopod.com/images/ContentImages/spine/spine_lumbar/lumbar_piriformis/piriformis_anatomy02.jpg
Ballet dancers suffer a lot from sciatica due to their "turn out " when they spin with one leg held horizontal.
Interestingly known as a "PIRouette".
Look at this guy. You can almost “feel” his piriformis getting tight.
http://studionedancers.com/Uploads/Articles/pirouette.jpg
Some of them have piriformis muscle s like stone. Not good.
In most cases, the piriformis has become tight because it is overworking due to other muscles not doing their job, as they themsleves are tight.
Which muscles ?
The Ilio-tibial band and the Tensor Fascia Lata, as well as [ in some cases ] the Poplitius muscle.
Stand straight and really dig your fingers into the tissue on the EXAct side of your leg.
Hurts doesn't it?
That's lactic acid build up in a muscle/fascia area that almost never gets stretched.
Now, go down a bit to the side and just above the kneecap.
Dig in.
Won't go.
Why ?
Because there's a bone there.
No, it's not a bone, it's hardened muscle and fascia tissue on the IT band.
If yours is not the case, then you are very lucky.
Dave
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Karl
Oct 6th, 2008 - 10:11 AM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Dave, sorry to keep asking questions.
I noticed yesterday that when i bring my right leg backwards (ie behind the neutral line of my body) it wont go back in a striaght line, it automatically moves outwards (to the right) of my body. My left leg will swing forwards and backwards in line with the body. Could this be down to a tight PF muscle?
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dave hutchieson
Oct 6th, 2008 - 11:50 AM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Hi Karl
There could be a bunch of things going on here, as the "hip girdle" contains quite a few muscles.
The best way to find out what is going on is by a process of elimination.
Find a good physical therapist who can perform range of motion tests.
He will have you bend form the waist to the left side, bend form the right side and check the difference [ if any between the two ].
He will repeat this with various other movements of your pelvis and legs.
If he is good, he will be able to determine which muscle or muscles are restricting the movement.
Stand up straight sideways to wall.
Keeping the leg closest to the wall straight, "kick out" the other leg [ holding onto the wall for stability ].
Have someone check how far out you go.
Repeat the process with the other leg.
If there is a difference [ or if you cannot move your legs out very far ], then the Tensor Fascia Lata muscle or muscles need worked on.
Have your IT band checked. I'm certain that down close to your knee, it will be tight as a drum.
Dave
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Weight Training Paul
Oct 10th, 2008 - 1:13 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Karl
Have you used the level yet mate, what do you see ?
Dave
With me the level shows the bubbles are higher on the right ASIS, it's around 25% out
I did my rib cage as well, that's higher on the left, the bubbles are around 50% out
Erector spinae muscles are bigger on the left as well
Anyone else done this yet
Paul
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Karl
Oct 10th, 2008 - 1:27 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Not done this yet, will do tomorrow.
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dave hutchieson
Oct 10th, 2008 - 2:01 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Hi Paul
Good.
Immediately we can see that we have some imbalances here, scientifically measured with an old builder's level.
This will become your reference [ along with regular photos ] for you to determine your progress.
We now know the areas we need to work.
If we keep stetching with no improvement, don't give up.
These are the two most likely reasons:
1. YOU CAN ONLY STRETCH AS FAR AS A KNOT OR ADHESION. IF YOU STRETCH ANY MORE, YOU WILL TEAR THE KNOT, THE BODY WILL LAY DOWN MORE SCAR TISSUE AND THE NEXT DAY, YOU WILL BE TIGHTER AND WITH LESS RANGE OF MOTION. BELIEVE IT OR NOT, WE SHOULD ONLY BE USING ONE POUND OF FORCE TO STRETCH WITH !! SO, WE NEED TO GET RID OF THE KNOTS: DEEP TISSUE MASSAGE, TRIGGER POINT THERAPY, ROBOT ETC.
2. A CHIROPRACTIC ADJUSTMENT MAY BE NECESSARY. SOMETIMES SOMETHING LIKE A FACET JOINT OR SI JOINT GETS STUCK, AND NEEDS A "PUSH".
Now that you are familiar with the level, have someone check your ASIS points with their thumbs. Very slowly and carefully.
Let us know what is noticed.
REMEMBER, LEVEL GOES HORIZONTAL ACROSS THE BODY FROM ONE ASIS POINT. IT MAY OR MAY NOT HIT THE OTHER ASIS POINT
THUMBS MAY OR MAY NOT END UP HORIZONTAL FROM EACH OTHER
We'll work on your pelvis first and then get onto your back.
For a high hip, check, have someone stand behind you and dig their thumbs into the area at the top of the hip.
You are looking into a mirror and they are behind you.
They have to carefully place their thumbs.
A bit rough, but not bad for a first check.
Later we'll do a check using the medial maleoli [ inner ankles ].
Dave
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fred wade
Oct 10th, 2008 - 6:00 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
. YOU CAN ONLY STRETCH AS FAR AS A KNOT OR ADHESION. IF YOU STRETCH ANY MORE, YOU WILL TEAR THE KNOT, THE BODY WILL LAY DOWN MORE SCAR TISSUE AND THE NEXT DAY, YOU WILL BE TIGHTER AND WITH LESS RANGE OF MOTION. BELIEVE IT OR NOT, WE SHOULD ONLY BE USING ONE POUND OF FORCE TO STRETCH WITH !! SO, WE NEED TO GET RID OF THE KNOTS: DEEP TISSUE MASSAGE, TRIGGER POINT THERAPY, ROBOT ETC.
Dave, can you over stretch with the robot?
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dave hutchieson
Oct 10th, 2008 - 6:43 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Hi Fred
No, because it is "spot treating' a very small aewa and is not stretching the whole muscle at once, as would happen when you stretch manually.
Dave
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dave hutchieson
Oct 10th, 2008 - 8:44 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Should have been small "area"
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Karl
Oct 14th, 2008 - 3:53 AM |
Re: What has worked for you?
How do i find the ASIS points?
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Weight Training Paul
Oct 14th, 2008 - 12:24 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Hi Karl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterior_superior_iliac_spine
You should be able to feel each bonely point per side
Paul
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Weight Training Paul
Oct 14th, 2008 - 12:40 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Dave
My right ASIS is around half an inch lower
I know the right side is the issue because the leg / knee is higher off the floor
When lying down my rig cage is higher on the left, what does this mean ?
I really went to town with the TP gear for my IP muscle, I've been doing more, 1 hour on the right side and 15 mins on the left and now the muscle feels " mushy "
I've still got these's little meat ball things though under the skin in the groin area, is that the knots it's gotta be ?
I think folks should listen to the radio stuff on the meilus site as well
Paul
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Weight Training Paul
Oct 14th, 2008 - 12:48 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Also when I stand up against a wall, if I just stand there relaxed, after around 10 ish secs I feel like I want to tip forward and fall over, I feel the weight moving onto my tip toes
Karl, does this happen to you bud
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dave hutchieson
Oct 14th, 2008 - 6:20 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Hi Paul
Good job with the TP masage ball.
Keep working on it.
You need to get the right iliacus loosened some more.
At this stage, you want to find a massage therapist who can work on it as well.
Bring your "Basic Clinical Massage Therapy" book with you.
Those little things are most likely knots.
I had them in my pectinius and gracilis muscles.
You probably still have forward head and shoulders, that's why your toes are "hanging on for dear life" - literally trying to stop you from toppling over [ along with your lower back muscles ].
Dave
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dave hutchieson
Oct 15th, 2008 - 1:05 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Paul
Have someone photograph you from the side whilst against the wall.
You need to get a lot of work done on your pec minor and pec major muscles.
Go to A's website and look at The "Ch 13 news with Russell Rhodes" clip.
Look at Dr. Young up against the wall before and after.
All Al did was work on his pecs for five minutes.
Dave
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Weight Training Paul
Oct 15th, 2008 - 1:19 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Yeah, pectinius and gracilis that's where they are
Is it a sign that things are really bad - knotted up wise
Anyone else out there have this
I certainly get my money's worth out of the TP gear
That's why many weight trainers can't squat down right - no elasticity in soleus
Psoas is mushly, iliacus is as hard as bone still
What do think to this
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Diagnosis-Treatment-Movement-Impairment-Syndromes/dp/0801672058/ref=pd_sim_b_4
Where did you learn everything mate, did you ask Al and PB guys millions questions
Paul
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Weight Training Paul
Oct 15th, 2008 - 1:55 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Yeah, I've seen it mate, I've watched and to listened everything apart from the testimonies
I go to town and swish the living daylights out of my pec's, it helps but they get tight again, not as bad, but it's there
If I raise my elbows to the side, bend my arm or lift it over head I can make a cracking / poping noise with my shoulders all the time
Al would sort it for sure but the rhomboids must be build up, they've gotta be, pretty much non existent, the muscle is staying on my chest even if you make it as soft as hell, there's no more atrophy happening
That Dr in the blue shirt still had weak rhomboids even when his chest was deactivated, do you think
I think if many get back to the gym they need to 2 - 3 as many high pulls / rows as press's
Paul
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paul
Oct 15th, 2008 - 5:30 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
this is a response to weight training Paul. 10 days ago i had over 22 injections of lidocaine into my adductor magnus and pectineus muscle.
I had done it all and had good success except i still got groin pain and calf pain constantly. As soon as the shots were over (they were painful as hell since the adductor magnus had to go 3 inches deep)....but once the pectineus got injected (that is the most tender part of the body)....it felt like i became unhinged. I always felt like i was restricted in my right groin. I just had my recheck up and still have inflammation but my calf pain is gone....just some tightness, but i can finally walk without impending tightness.
The pectineus is a ****** Phase 2 of this therapy is neuro-muscular electrical stimulation so the muscle contracts for 30 minutes at a time 3 straight days. My adductor magnus worked fine, but it took 20 minutes to get my pectineus to jump....Like starting a dead car battery.
Here are the benefits so far:
no leg pain
no groin tightness
no testicle pain
can sit back in my car seat for first time
my psoas is supple.....always was tight before....
negatives from all this stuff.....was painful.....and after all my back tests my back tested very strong and flexible, but i have next to no glute function. Over the years i became so hip flexor dominant that my glutes just shut off. So i need to work on those. Also the opposite side of my back is now tender from being in a contracted state for 4.5 years. I have not been able to work for 2 years and feel i can return in about a month.
But this i believe is the last piece of my puzzle.
This was diagnosed by a muscle machine developed by a world reknowned pain doctor (Dr. Norman Marcus) and it showed those 2 were my main problems,
He also believes that most back surgeries are unneccessary and are muscle related (novel to hear that from an MD i know).
His waiting room was loaded with people from all over the country. Some who had mutltiple fushions and were now functioning.....truly amazing
when i am done with this i am rebooking a session with AL
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fred wade
Oct 15th, 2008 - 7:36 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Paul, I thought the robot had fixed all your problems.
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Paul
Oct 15th, 2008 - 8:51 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Fred-
The robot fixed 90% of my problems and convinced me it was muscular. However, the last 10% was this unbelievable tightness in my calf.
I am sure if i told Al about it the robot could have resolved it but i had no idea that my calf, testicle, and groin pain was caused by a pectineus and adductor magnus problem. I am going to see Al for a final tuneup in 6 weeks. i hope to be close to 100% by then.
I am an unusual case because i had surgery in 1988 and my new injury was a torsion injury that caused a groin and sacral pop but no practitioner ever put 2 and 2 together.
The other thing is this. Once you become functional as compared to being bedridden it is great, but then you start to remember what it was like to be real healthy and you want the last remaining kinks worked out. I imagine that the robot would have kept me functional until i reinjured but when i had the tests for the adductor magnus (3rd largest muscle in my body) it was apparent that this was what caused everything. All other things were symptoms caused by it. And it seems many modalities chase symptoms, but i was lucky. Several people id'd my psoas, but each time it was released it would tighten back up in a few days. Except for Al. He saw many more muscles involved and also noticed i had a compression of the femoral artery causing me coldness and distress in my lower leg. And the funny thing was he was right because the pectineus is right next to the femoral artery as is the adductor magnus. Also Dr. Marcus said it was like having a 6 ft rope trying to do the job of a 7 ft rope therefore pulling all the structures down. I wish my problem were as straight forward as many people, but i have had to lose a great job, spend over 100k out of pocket to find my answers.
I am still sore from the injection sites but I just got back from a 6 hour drive and no pain....Just leg tightness....
I hope that answered your question.
So I am ranking my things that worked as this:
1) LTBP let me know it was an imbalance and muscular
2) NMT showed me how to get some relief although short lived
3) Al showed me what muscles were the perpatrators and got me out of pain for the first time in 4 years (was able to run/walk 3 miles the day of treatment)
4) Dr. Marcus who has the most advanced muscle technology for identifying the perpetrating muscle and using his "muscle softening" protocol which i am still going through.
5) my next step is going through a stretching program designed by Aaron Mattes.
*** this is what worked for me. I could list the 15 doctors i saw who did not work....the chrios....the PTs....the sports massage people.....the Rolfers and so on......
We all have different problems and therefore must look for a combination that works for us. I wish i was a straightforward case but i had to peel this onion layer by layer. It almost destroyed me......
I also use the robot i have here 3-4x per week concentrating on my psoas, but with these injections the psoas has not tightened in 8 days. In fact my NMT could not believe how supple all my muscles were..
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Paul
Oct 16th, 2008 - 8:28 AM |
Re: What has worked for you?
**** I am sorry but i also failed to mention Egoscue therapy.
This has also been a big help. in getting my posture, especially my shoulder and forward head...much better.
Since i am so sore at my injection sites I can not do some of these excercises for a couple more weeks.....but i found the process very informative and helpful.
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dave hutchieson
Oct 16th, 2008 - 1:04 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Paul
This is great news. I am certain you will be 100% pain free very soon.
Paul's story is very important for everyone out there with back pain.
Some people literally get "cured" overnight from certain treatments. This often happens with the LTBP system and sciatica. If it is just one small muscle like the piriformis.
For some people who have just gotten tight from sitting at a desk all day, they may not need much to get themselves "fixed".
Others like Paul who have led an active lifestyle with martial arts etc, may need to do several things.
Never give up. There is a lot of experience on this website to give advice.
Imagine how Paul would be now if he had surgery ?
He would still have all the pain, plus the bad effects from surgery.
Once more, sometimes surgery is necessary, but only in the MINORITY of cases.
Dave Hutchieson
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Weight Training Paul
Oct 16th, 2008 - 1:37 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Hi Paul
Thanks for all the information there bud, I remember reading your story a while back on this site and how you have spent 100 K to find your anwsers and how you've pretty much done everything, I appreciate your response
I work 1 - 2 days a week these's days, pay my parents board, jobs a good un
I then spend all day doing LTBP, Egoscue, reading books
Egoscue has made me functional
I walk 5 miles a day, cut the lawn, move around, ect my mine problem is sitting down which causes a cold right iliacus, pectineus, adductors
I think the three adductors, pectineus, iliacus is compressing of the femoral artery, Al just said the iliacus is cutting off the blood supply
Dr. Marcus stuff looks interesting
http://sportspainusa.com/mppd.htm
I think I'll be buying the portable robot soon
Paul
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Weight Training Paul
Oct 17th, 2008 - 12:20 PM |
Re: What has worked for you?
Karl
When lying down is your rig cage higher on one side, using the level
If you bend over round back style is one side of your back higher - rib hump
I don't seem to have this though
If you do it's idiopathic
Thanks
Paul
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