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Less Is More Horsemanship Forum
Welcome to the Less Is More Forum. This forum is to post questions, comments, suggestions, ideas, principles, concepts and ideas regarding Natural Horsemanship and more importantly, the philosophy of "Less IS More". This is a place where like-minded people can come to throw away all the old traditional ways of training, and riding, and begin to experience a new FREEDOM in their relationship with their equine partners. Whether your goal is to learn more about natural horsemanship, get support for your own personal Less Is More belief, find solutions for problems that are hindering your relationship, begin a journey of discovery or healing, this is your home. Regardless of what the current "fads" are in traditional circles or natural horsemanship circles, I encourage you to think 'outside the box'. Feel free to post a message.
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| Viewing Page 1 of 1 (Total Posts: 8) |
| Author | Comment |
Kimberly
Feb 20, 08 - 4:52 PM |
Grain or Alfalfa?
Hi,I have a Quarter horse/ walking horse mutt that I board and have to feed in the evenings. However, he is at a new place where the barn manager doesn't provide hay for the pasture horses. They all get fed 10% sweet feed and some beet pulp every morning. Then, in the evening I pull him in a give him a really big scoop of grain and 1 flake of Alfalfa/ Orchard grass hay. I know how important roughage is so I feel like he needs more hay but there is no easy was to do it. I don't have time to wait around for him to eat all they hay he probably needs. I mainly feed him grain to keep a little more weight on him because it is winter but do you think it would be better for me to just forget the grain and concentrate on him getting more hay? I just feel like he needs more hay. What do you think about grain feeding in general? Do you think I could keep weight on him by just feeding him a lot of alfalfa hay? Any help would be great! |
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Michael Gonzalez
Feb 21st, 2008 - 9:02 AM |
Re: Grain or Alfalfa?
Great question... First off, horses were meant to eat grass..in other words...roughage. When a horse needs more calories or requires more maintenance, a general rule of thumb is, don't increase grain, increase natural roughage. In the Spring, Summer, and Fall, our horses are 100% pasture...and they are fat. In the winter, we feed realy god quality hay...and they stay fat. LOL. We have one older Arabian who has, in the past, needed something 'extra' and we fed her some grain. Never more than 1 cup. The reason we needed to adapt this was because in a herd of 4 horses, she is number 7 in the pecking order. Get it? She is low in the ranking structure and would be pushed out of the feeding. This year we now have a separate barn lot to isolate her during feedings so we d not need to offer any grain. Se is getting all the hay she needs. While grains and supplements have come a long way and science has improved the nutrient values of those grains, ther is still no substitute for the natural diet that the horse was designed (created) to eat. WE, as humans, sometimes do things because "thats the wa it has alwas been done"...or..." thas what my trainer says to do"..etc., etc We forget that nature, left to herself, has a beautiful way of adapting things to their perfection. Giving grain is like the issue about shoeing horses. We just seem to automatically do wthout much forethought because, "thats what they used to do at the barn where I boarded before". Once you start the yo-yo process of giving grain, and a horse's system gets used to it to maintain weight, strength and health, it gets hard to get them off of it and return them back to their natural state. As far as what to feed..a good hay mi...ood grass, with some timothy and a little alfalfa. Balanced. To much alfalfa is bad on thier system...too much timothy doesnt give them what they need. The other thing is this...I used to train out of a barn who would throw a scoop of grain and a flake of hay to every horse...THIS IS NOT ENOUGH FOR THEIR DIETARY NEEDS!!! Horses spend 80% of their day grazing...one or two flakes of hay is not adequate amounts of roughage nor nutrition to sustain them. This is why they lose weight, have hoof issues, mental and emotional issues, health issues, etc. I would stay away from the grain except in extreme circumstances...stay away from the grain and increase roughage...there is no better substitute than good quality pasture 100% of the time...or a good quality hay roughage supplementation. increase roughage! Michael |
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Kimberly
Feb 21st, 2008 - 9:43 AM |
Re: Grain or Alfalfa?
Thank you so much Michael! I guess I am going to try and slowly come off of grain and increase his hay. I am hoping that I don't see a huge change in his weight since it is winter time. I live in Alabama where pretty much everyone feed coastal/bermuda. I am thinking that if I was to feed a hay that would keep some weight on him, I should feed my alfalfa/orchard grass. What do you think about this hay? There isn't much choice down here. Of course there is always the dehydrated bagged alfalfa, but I know straight alfalfa isn't the best. I also wanted to say, that I found your website just a few days ago and I can't quit reading it. Everything that you have to say makes so much since and I really agree with everything I have seen so far. I have been searching everywhere for a program or something that sparked my interest with kind of starting over with my 4 year old. I have really been looking at Parelli but so hesitant to jump out and buy a package. I shopped until I was blue in the face for a rope halter, lead, and stick and I finally decide to go with www.handcraftedjewls.com because they used the Samson material that I thought would be good because it is soft and strong. Anyways, sorry to ramble but I think what you are doing is great! I love the videos of Hondo. It gives me something to work on until I finally decide to buy something!Thanks again! |
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Michael Gonzalez
Feb 21st, 2008 - 12:03 PM |
Re: Grain or Alfalfa?
Kimberly... No, thank YOU for coming to visit the site and posting messages. Keitha at Handcraftedjewls is a good supplier and has great customer service. literally hundreds and hundreds of people have bought from her because of my recommendation and I have never heard one negative comment...ever. If you go through some older message postings, you will find a lot of info as to why I believe that Level One parelli program to be the best suited out there...after that...the options, and the world, are yours for the learning. Remember, those programs are not about training your horse...they are about training YOU and instilling new disciplines, thought patterns, behaviors and habits in YOU. Once YOU "get it" the horse will seem to almost magically "get it" too. :) If the alfalfa content isnt too high, your hay shoul dbe fine. I know you are limited down there and I know that due to droughts in the south, that hay is really high in cost. Just hang in there for now...Spring is almost here...might as well just continue with what you are doing for the next month...HOWEVER...begin to formulate a plan now as to how you are going to wean off and what the plan is for next winter. With Spring so close, why disrupt things now. beth and I prefer our horses a little bit fat going into winter because we know that around late February and early March they start to drop weight a little bit. We like them to come out of winter just right so when they hit the pasture they don't explode!! hee hee One winter they kept theri weight on and when Spring hit and they were moved to pasture, they became GINORMOUS!!! Our horses are too small framed to carry that kind of weight. It is always a gamble and a science to keep them "in the zone" dependent on weather, pasture, hay, etc., etc. Only a month left..hang in there....just start planning now .... Thank you coming around here and visiting....hope yo stay a long time and become a regular Always Yours In Horsemanship.... Michael |
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Kimberly
Feb 21st, 2008 - 12:39 PM |
Re: Grain or Alfalfa?
Sounds good. I'll just let him get his grain for now, and let him enjoy while he can ;)He does tend to get quite chubby on grass alone in the summer. I almost worry about founder. I don't know if I should keep going on about other questions here or if I should go somewhere else: Anyway, I read what you had heard about Torsion saddles, I also have been interested for a long time in treeless saddles. I really miss the close contact after riding in a barrel saddle for so long now. Although I don't have one yet, I am really interested in them. I know everyone has their own opinion, but the only thing that I see about them that bothers me is that some believe that they don't provide enough spine clearance, even with the special pads. This makes me feel bad about riding bareback sometimes. I am really tall but thin and I feel that my horse has no problem carrying me. But what do you think about the spine issue? I am sorry about all the questions, I could go on alllllllllll day! |
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Michael Gonzalez
Feb 22nd, 2008 - 8:03 PM |
Re: Grain or Alfalfa?
you are more than welcome to ask as many questions as you like..others are willing to chime in to respond as well. However, there may come a time when you ask me a question when I may ask you to call me because the level of explaination will require that I just tell you on the phone. Sometimes I can tell you in 5 minutes on the phone what would take an hour to type and volumes of writing. Hope that makes sense. As you may well know by now, that we ride bareback almost 100% of the time...yes,there are some caveats to this...you must have a sound horse who has good muscle structure and tone in their back. Thats important. Another thing is to watch your own weight. If you feel you are too heavy and pushing the limit of what should be an acceptable weight for your horse to carry, then besides getting fit for your horse, you should you ride with a saddle. Another thing is that you should have a really good independent seat so you are not banging on your horse's back. If you dont think you have a good quiet connected seat, then have someone work with you and your horse. Also, do some serious study of basic home "chiropractic' exercises that you can do to help your horse after you ride. Like the old "belly lift" etc. There is a lot of info out on the internet to help you learn. No, you dont need to d full blown chirpractic adjustments, just a couple of basic things to help out. Make sure your horse's feet are sound, and they are healthy. I love the feeling of cantering bareback..especially when Desi and I canter bareback and bridleless and we are slow and controlled and very smooth...there is no better feeling of escapism and freedom. My goal is for everyone to be able to experience that freedom. It is my passion to help you find that place in your horsemanship where you are free. Michael |
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Wendy
Feb 29th, 2008 - 2:10 PM |
Re: Grain or Alfalfa?
I use alph/grass mix. In the winter I buy good quality smal stem/flaky Alph. and give them that at night and morning. I give grass in afternoon. In the summer I get alp grass mix(light on the alph.) and just grass in afternoon. This is in the months when feild is grazzed down. In spring I only feed twice. The best method I have used is 3 small meals. Less chance of founder. If it gets down to single digits in winter I sometimes break it down to 4 meals. Not everyone can do that as their schedule. I give only a 1 lb scoop of grain w/ Source powder vitamin supp. sprinkled on top. For feeding flacks they vary alot depending on weight. A horse is supose to get 1.5% of their body weight or more if cold weather. I for some time used a scale to weigh flacks until I got to know by sight about the weight. The best benifit of buying hay grass and alpha seperate-it gives you the ability to make ajustments and I watch the body index score or looks of the horse to make sure he is neither to fat or to skinny. We have been doing barefoot for yrs and my husband had took a course from Pete Ramey, and w/ good nutrition it is critical for good feet. Too much carbohydrate is a kiler on the feed. Most likely you are not going to overdose on protien, most horses don't get enough. RE-saddles. I sold all my treed I always preferred bareback but wasn't practical on trail rides in very mountainous regions were we live. I have enjoyed the Treeless Barefoot Saddles. My husband has a cheyene and I havea london(dressage style but I use for trail too). They are like bareback but when used w/ the pad they distribute your weight off the spine and give both horse and rider a comfortable ride. My daughter got an AE Saddleworks Banderos for $499 vs the Barefoot of $649. I found that it may be a better deal in some ways to the barefoot. The stirrups leathers are ajustable rigging for placement and has equalizing pressure points for the girth. More d rings. The only difference I liked is that The barefoot this year put in pannels of foam that lift the saddle off the spine sort of like bars of foam built in. This was a must have for my heavy husband, with the saddle pad w/ the foam shims too it makes a comfy ride for his horse who he can now take on trail rides for hours. Endurance riders have been using treeless for 50- 100 mile rides. I don't ride like that but it is nice to know they have been put to the test so I am making a wise investment. I have read thread everywhere and once you ride treeless that is it! I love bareback but this is actually more comfortable for my horse(and me!). I have young horses and starting them w/ these saddles has made a world of difference, I use a double end elastic stretchy girth. Its like a back pack for them, w/ me on top. My saddle the London has lots of extra cush. I feel like I put a soft pillow an his back and ride. So there is my input. |
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Wendy
Feb 29th, 2008 - 2:12 PM |
Re: Grain or Alfalfa?
I guess you can't edit. I ment to say 1 cup not 1 lb of grain. Just to make powder vitamins palitable. |
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