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Less Is More Horsemanship Forum
Welcome to the Less Is More Forum. This forum is to post questions, comments, suggestions, ideas, principles, concepts and ideas regarding Natural Horsemanship and more importantly, the philosophy of "Less IS More". This is a place where like-minded people can come to throw away all the old traditional ways of training, and riding, and begin to experience a new FREEDOM in their relationship with their equine partners. Whether your goal is to learn more about natural horsemanship, get support for your own personal Less Is More belief, find solutions for problems that are hindering your relationship, begin a journey of discovery or healing, this is your home. Regardless of what the current "fads" are in traditional circles or natural horsemanship circles, I encourage you to think 'outside the box'. Feel free to post a message.
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| Viewing Page 1 of 1 (Total Posts: 7) |
| Author | Comment |
Carol Martin
 Sep 6, 07 - 5:21 PM |
Rescue horses
Hi. I run a horse rescue in Colorado. Most of the horses we get in are either untrained or have problems. We have not had great luck with trainers and therefore have trouble finding good homes for the horses. In other words, training is our weak point. I had not been confident in my own skills but recently decided that if the job was going to get done, what I need to do is "train" myself. I love what you had to say about learning together to communicate with your horse. This makes sense to me. I I guess what I am trying to say is HELP!Any advice you can throw my way is appreciated. Carol |
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Michael Gonzalez
Sep 6th, 2007 - 7:48 PM |
Re: Rescue horses
Carol.... HI!!! Thank you for posting here. Nice to meet you! Well...first off...let's start with this... Throw the clock out the window...I know sometimes, with rescues, you need to be able to rehabilitate them and train them and get them out of there because ther are always other horses that need to be rescued. For the horse's sake, we need to remember that the first principle AND tool in horsemanship is T-I-M-E. Second, forget about "training" and never go to the horse thinking that today we are going to "train". We must first communicate so we can build TRUST and that will lead to mutual respect and offer the horse a brand new beginning. When I say "communication", I do nto mean round penning to establish it. Especiallly with rescue horses. Stay away form running them in endless mind-numbing circles and begin communication and trust by touching them with your hands and loving them. Yes, I said "loving them". unconditionally. See, even the so called "bad ones" are only wired that way because of their Self-Preservation. It isnt their fault that they have been put into situations which required them to have a lot of self-preservation. So slow and loving is theway. You may also have a group of horses who have had thier spirit broken by the previous owners and handlers. they seem to just plod along with no real life in them or no real spirit. These are sad horses who need to be lifted up and given an opportunity to regain their pride and their grace and beauty. You have a tough group of horses with a lot of challenges...I applaud you for giving it your all. Start with the basics...gently asking the horses to accept your touch all over their bodies. Do not use a flag stick! I want you to use your hands! If you have a horse that wont let you touch his body or wont let you touch all over...find his comfortable zone and stay there. Remember, we work in millimeters!!! Once you can touch them all over adn they are comfortable and trusting, then i want you to begin asking them to lower their head. Stand next to their head and GENTLY guide theri head down. For the first time, with a troubled horse, I dont like to use the method where you pinch the poll. I would rather that you GENTLY take the lead rope about 10" below the chin and GENTLY ask for them to yield and lower the head. As they lower their head, squat with them and match their height. if they riase their head, you raise up to. Stay eye level with them at all times. When they lower their head all the way down, you should be squatting right next to them. Ask them to bury their head into your chest. Just wait on them there. Talk to them. I do all the time. I hug them lightly and kiss their eyes. I know, some of you are saying what bull hockey this is....however, those of you who have been in clinics with me or seen my demos at horse fairs know what I am talking about and this method has never failed to soften a horse. This is a place of comfort that I will use from that moment on as a place to regroup and breathe and mentally and emotionally rest together. Hope that makes sense. For me...this is how I start every colt...this is how I restart every horse...this is how I begn my relationship with troubled horses....everything starts with touching with my hands...and lowering the head together until we can bond. I dont do anything else until I acheive those two things...regardless of how long it takes me. Carol, I would love to help in anyway that I can...please feel free to post here, email me or call me on my cell. I will freely give whatever advice and suggestions that I can to help you with your equine partners. Thanks for having faith in me...hang in there... Always Yours In Horsemanship.... Michael |
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Carol Martin
Sep 6th, 2007 - 10:15 PM |
Re: Rescue horses
Thank you for the quick response. I have always worked from the principle of gentling through touch, but the part about lowering their head is new to me. I worked with my Percheron/Morgan gelding today getting him to flex the way you were with Hondo. He seemed to catch on. Ok, when I am in the round-pen I do a join-up to get their attention. What do you do to get a horse focused on you? We work with a lot of mustangs. I usually get a new mustang in a chute where we are both safe and get my hands on him to get him used to the idea. Then we work from there, going next to touching with out the chute and then to the round pen for join up. I had wondered before if it was fair to be punishing them in the roundpen when they had committed no crime, so I was open to your no round pen idea. I actually am more comfortable with the mustangs because they are a clean slate. I have more trouble with the abused horses and I usually go very slow. Often I will take months of just feeding them and maybe getting a rub on the nose in through the fence. We have had some really traumatized horses. I look forward to learning more from you. Carol |
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Michael Gonzalez
Sep 7th, 2007 - 8:58 AM |
Re: Rescue horses
Hmmm...let's see...well first, the whole "join-up" thing is way too over-used adn abused. It really doesn't mean anything. Please read throught eh article on my webiste about why I don't like Round penning...there is also a short video on Hondo's page where I am basically just sitting there and sharing my no round penning philosophy. This will give you some insight as to why I dont round pen. I get the horse to focus on me by communicating. I do this with the help of a tarp. I guess you could say that the tarp IS my round pen. But I do it much differently than most of the NH clinicians. They usually use a small tarp or one that is bunched up. The put it in a round pen and then (once again, sigh) round pen the horse aropund, pass and over the tarp yadda yadda yadda, right? Well I dont. I dont play the Alpha mare role thing too much, but usign that terminology and thhat analogy, I simply ask my partner to follow me. See, Alpha leaders in a herd do not send their herd mates over something...they dont tell a subordinate horse to go check something out while they wait here. No, they simply go...and the herd quietly follows along. So I do it the same way.... HOWEVER.... I carefully prepare my partner mentally and emotionally for crossing the tarp, before i ever allow them to cross. I dont send them...I dont ddrive them. We get to the tarp adn we wait. They can lick it, blow on it, snort it, paw it, bite it, pee and poop on it...what they are not allowed to do is cross it. Not until they are mentally and emotionally ready to cross it quietly. I use a very large tarp..the bigger the better sometimes. If a horse "feels" to me like he may be thinking about jumping it or going across the tarp quickly, I do not allow him to cross it. We wait. We wait until we ar ementallly and emotionally ready. When they do cross, they cross quietly and confidently as if they have crossed it a thousand times. I wont accept anything less than this. If I let them go across in any other way...in any other fashion...then I did not prepare my partner enough. I cheated my horse. Long story short here.... the tarp allows me to communicate with my horse...through this patience and communication we build a foundation of immediate trust...this offers myself and my partner respect...and 99% of the time, when I am done with my tarp exercises, I have acheived a physical "join-up" much like you get when you round pen a horse...the only difference...the main difference...the most important ddifference... is that I never once...never once...lunged my horse one single lap! So my suggestion is this...in order to make a change...you need to change your heart...if these troubled horses are not succcessfully being turned around with all the round penning and lunging, then it is not working and it is time to change.... Leave the idea of round penning, join-up, and respect out of your vocabulary. it will be hard not to revert back to what you have always done, but you have to. Dont fall back on those crutches. The burden of responsibility is on your shoulders to find a better way to communicate and build trust without ddominating the horse by running them. it's a challenge...but you have to stick with it.... Michael |
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RebelsMom
Sep 7th, 2007 - 9:34 AM |
Re: Rescue horses
This is great information! I have something to add... what about lunging/circle/etc how would you start with a horse never lunged/circled before? Would you just smack the horse out-right (unless they get out of the way) like I've seen in the Parelli DVDs or twirl the rope until they're gone like I've seen Ken McNabb and Chris Cox do? Or none of the above? Thanks.  Oh also, where do you stand on the squeeze game, or driving horse over/through things? Also, treats. Hand feeding, good or bad? Does it depend on the horse? |
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Carol Martin
Sep 7th, 2007 - 9:48 AM |
Re: Rescue horses
Ok. I get it now. I had watched your video clips but I was still not quite redirecting my focus. Funny, I think I was doing better a few years ago before I started "learning how" to train horses. With my first mustangs I paid much more attention to building a relationship than to teaching. I have a 12 year old mustang stud that I have never had a halter or rope on but he will do anything I ask him to. I have never been on his back, because that is not how our relationship works, but he will follow me anywhere. When I was 14, my Dad gave me a 4 year old mustang that had never been touched. He got on him and rode him 10 miles. The next day he handed him off to me and I rode him 10 miles home. I can't say what the first 10 were like, but I can tell you that over the years he was with me he would do anything I asked him too. I could get him to bow to people, rear on command (I was a show-off) jump or anything else I thought of. I have been telling people that I don't remember "teaching" him to do these things, he just did them. I think the light has finally dawned on me. I need to get back to what I feel instead of what I know. Thanks for helping me out. I'm sure I will have more questions soon. Carol |
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RebelsMom
Sep 12th, 2007 - 7:54 AM |
Re: Rescue horses
Great story Carol. I hear stuff like this all the time and I wonder why it hasn't happened to me! I'm pretty much a kid and I have a pony! 
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